MOT exemption

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PHUQ
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Location: Stonehouse, Glos.

Re: MOT exemption

Post by PHUQ » Fri May 25, 2018 8:30 am

mickthefitter wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 1:05 pm I thought I'd read Chris (but I've thrown the papers away now) that previous historic VED free vehicles that have been heavily modified ie custom cars, which don't qualify for MoT exemption, were going to have to start paying for road tax. As were previously MoT exempt pre 1960 vehicles also in a modified condition. So from that I concluded if you didn't declare your historic vehicle unmodified and hence MoT free, it was no longer historic. The situation certainly isn't clear cut for a lot of people.
There's a points based system for tax exemption (actually it's not tax exemption, it's about being able to keep the original registration regardless of vehicle age) allocating points for engine, gearbox, steering, axles, suspension etc. It would have been sensible to have used this for the MOT exemption rules too but they didn't- the MOT exemption rules are a) less well defined b) stricter so it's quite plausible to have something that's tax exempt but not MOT exempt. That said a lot of the hot rods and other heavily modified cars don't meet the points criteria for keeping their registration either... which is why they are running scared as they are expecting a clampdown.
Matt
1974 1973 Tundra Black Tulip 1800 SDL TC Estate "Mud"- Freshly Franked rolling shell.
Really, really horrible 1974 Black Tulip 1300 DL- Basically compost.

mickthefitter
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Re: MOT exemption

Post by mickthefitter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:24 pm

Well since yesterday NNN is out of MoT. I've just done the DVLA Vehicle Check thing and the home page just says 'Taxed till May 31st 2019' and 'No MoT Results Returned'. Then I go to the MoT History page and there's the red box at the top, saying 'The MoT has expired!', with smaller print below saying "This vehicle may be MoT exempt", and then a link to the MoT exemption guidelines for more info. And that info tells us exactly what we already know about the exemption classes, and modified vehicles. I searched for the declaration form V112, and just like I've heard before, that is something you submit only when the car is taxed, so since I've only re-taxed mine a month ago, it appears I'll just be driving it on trust, that if an ANPR police car picks my car up, hoping the constables will be clued up enough to know that my car doesn't need an MoT, and not pull me in. I have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with this.

Also this week I called in and had a word with Glyn, my local garage man who does my MoTs and who fixed my Marina up last year, telling him I was messing about with it at the moment and the MoT was about to expire so I wasn't bringing it in just yet, but what plans had he got for inspecting MoT exempt vehicles he was presented with? A thorough old-style inspection or a full MoT to modern standards? His answer was he couldn't get his head around why the government had done this, and he'd put cars through a full MoT. He didn't seem concerned when I asked about the tightened regulations for modern vehicles and felt it wasn't a problem. Maybe that's because he's been around a long time and knows old cars, I don't know. On Thursday I also picked up a copy of Classic Car Weekly while killing time waiting to meet somebody who never showed up. In it was a small article about the MoT exemption that I've scanned and attached below. Basically they are saying that despite a few hiccups, everything is going swimmingly. The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency reckons historic vehicles can still be voluntarily tested to pre-20th May standards. Pity nobody bothered to tell Glyn that...
cars.jpg

david painter
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Re: MOT exemption

Post by david painter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:04 pm

From my point of view as a MOT station owner, when the MOT computer was revised on 20th May 2018 there were not two standards of test set. One list of RFR's, (fails for all) what does apply the same as previously are differing dates of first use. ie pre 1971 only one stop light required. Pre1980 no rear fog light required and pre 1975 only a visual emissions test. A well maintained classic can still easily pass the required standard of the current MOT I have since tested several classics all of which have passed the oldest being first registered in 1936. My opinion is if the car cannot pass an MOT the owner should not declare on the V112 form the car is safe to drive.

Below is the note on declaration taken from Form V112 clearly stating it is an offence to drive a car without an MOT under section 47 of RTTA

It is an offence under Section 47 of the Road Traffic Act or article 63 of the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 to use a car, motorcycle or light goods vehicle without an MoT certificate on a public road unless the vehicle
is ‘exempt’ from MoT testing
.

I personally would MOT the car anyway, as it provides good providence when you are looking to sell to a prospective owner. That aside in Micks type case, I would have car tested this year. Then take form to Post office next year to declare MOT exemption if you no longer wish to have the car tested as then it is all official
Dave

mickthefitter
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Re: MOT exemption

Post by mickthefitter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:44 pm

It's still a confusing fudge-up IMO. My attitude is I still want my car examined but may still use it on the road, minus an MoT, until it is convenient for me to take it. It isn't my main car anyway so doesn't get used much. But what you've said here Dave, about there not being two MoT standards, and what Glyn said to me, seems to contradict the public face of MoT exemption as presented in articles like that I've reproduced i.e. you can have your exempt classic volunteered for a pre May 2018 MoT test. They make it sound all sorted, everybody reading from the same page. What you and Glyn say seems to suggest its wide open to interpretation.

david painter
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Re: MOT exemption

Post by david painter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:38 pm

You can have a MOT style check and use the V112 form. If you want it to be listed on the MOT data base, we can only carry out a full MOT to the current regulations. If it fails this would also be listed on database. I can see the confusion from the publics point of view. The Government other than saying 40 year old VHI are to be MOT exempt there has been very little clarification. I only know what is written on V112 when I googled for what I wrote above and what I have read in the press I have had no official notification from DVSA. When you log on to test a 40+ year old VHI nothing comes up on the DVSA computer saying it may be exempt. I am in exactly the same position as you Mick with my MG had to be taxed on 1st May but MOT ran out in March so I wont find out till next year. My Brown MK3 Coupe is too new being 1980 so will have to test that to get it taxed .
Dave

mickthefitter
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Re: MOT exemption

Post by mickthefitter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:06 pm

Well I don't think Glyn knows. I approached him asking if he'd got a policy if he was presented with an MoT exempt vehicle that the owner wants checking and he said he'd put it through a full MoT. I get what you've said about the cars you've tested including a 1936 one, and your view that anything rightly roadworthy should pass, but then if that means any cars tested remain on the system liable for annual testing, it makes a mockery of the whole circus surrounding making VHIs MoT exempt in the first place. And in spite of what I've heard to put my mind at rest about another point I've brought up before, I'm still not convinced, until I've done it and seen it with my own eyes, that NOT declaring your VHI as MoT exempt does NOT take away your free VED status. My gut feeling is, they just haven't thought it through. They've brought it in, to fall in line with the EU, made up some rules about 'highly' modified old cars not avoiding the MoT, which I'm sure I've read means they start paying VED, even if they weren't before, and apart from publications like Classic Car Weekly, early in the process, playing devil's advocate by putting all the pros and cons to see what reaction they got, I seem to sense a general wave of "Oh goody, I've got no need to bother MoTing my old banger any more" from a whole section of the classic car community. If I'm being cynical, probably most of the section that inhabits eBay. If I find, and I admit I am yet to find, not declaring my car MoT exempt loses me my free VED, then I'll declare it. If putting my car through a full test (as Glyn said he would) doesn't affect the VED but means I have to keep having it tested, as long as it isn't pulled to bits at test time I can live with that. But if, and this is what worries me, you have to declare your car MoT exempt to maintain the free VED and then you are off the MoT radar, then that's what I'll end up doing with my car. Maybe not this year, but maybe the next. It just is not written down in crystal clear black and white, from what I can make out, and there seems to be a lot of people jumping for joy because they haven't got to pay for tax OR an MoT. Or the repairs.

david painter
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Re: MOT exemption

Post by david painter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:21 pm

I don't disagree. When we had the 25 year rolling free VED there were lost of old cars suddenly on the roads, possibly why it was frozen at 1973. lots of old Barn finds on ebay reminding you its MOT exempt!! in advert. if a few of those cars end up on the road unchecked and in accidents, worse still killing someone!! it will all be revised again. The MOT has been harmonised with Europe and certificate layout will be the same so any police reguardless of language will know what means what. For Old Timer testable status in the EU I don't know what it is.
Dave

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