Starter Motor Replacement

**Topics directly related to Marinas and Itals**

Moderators: ClaytonSpeed, balmy

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:05 pm

Hi all.

I recently purchased an unfinished kit car with '73 Marina 1800 running gear. Currently going through it bit by bit and trying to source replacement parts.

I'm currently stuck for a replacement starter motor. My local motor factors had no joy looking anything up. What would the modern replacement be please?

I took off a Lucas M35J pre engaged.

Thanks very much

mickthefitter
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by mickthefitter » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:21 pm

Could it not be rewound? That's the same model fitted to my car. I was looking to replace it when it packed in last winter. The now defunct Earlpart were listing them for £100+ (£130 I think) but when I phoned them up, they were out of stock, and they said they could rewind mine and turn it round in a fortnight for £85. I said I'd think about it and then enquired where there were some men in a shed with a corrugated iron roof and heaps of dynamo/alternator/starter motor bits under benches and in boxes (W Whyatt and Son, local to me) and they turned it round in 24 hours for thirty quid. It's finding out where these things can be done, that's the problem. Getting a rad re-cored I was less fortunate in the bargain department after using Google to find someone to do that, but Whyatt's were word of mouth from an ex motor trade neighbour. Do you know anyone you can ask?

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:38 pm

I've asked Google once more and dug even deeper.

I found that typing Lucas 2m100 (taken from Haynes manual) pulled a few more results that i was able to cross reference. On Moss-europe.co.uk, it gives a few options.

Lucas 13H6130E
" GXE4441Z
" GXE4441B (Modern lightweight equivalent)
" GXE4441X (High Torque)

Typing GXE4441 into Google brings plenty of things up. About £70 for a new one on fleabay.

If i'm correct, then i guess i've answered my own question. LoL

I shall go back to my local factors in the morning armed with my findings and see if they can sort me out.

mickthefitter
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by mickthefitter » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:51 pm

Be very careful. MGB starter motors do not fit 1800 Marinas. The pinion gear nose piece is different. I don't know why, but it is. It is a different casting and it cannot simply be unbolted and moved around. This is the biggest obstacle in finding a starter to fit a Marina (or a kit car with a Marina engine). Here are some images. The first is my M35J starter, pre-rewind. Then there are two images of MGB starters listed at the moment on eBay. You can see that if the solenoid sits on top, the pinion nose piece is open on the opposite side. Finally Barry (marinamadbaz on this forum) sent me two images of the M35J and 2M100 side by side, to show the difference. Barry reckoned the 1800 Marina should have the 2M100 and that the M35J was for a 1.3, and Whyatt's said much the same. My Autobooks workshop manual also supports this, but the Haynes manual I had (a replacement is due soon after the old one got trashed) actually linked the M35J to Mk2 1800 Marinas, which is what mine is, and I see no reason to suspect my low mileage car, messed up as it was in the maintenance department when I got it, has had a different starter motor added.
Copy of WP_20170328_16_20_03_Pro_zps1hfq6yw3.JPG
MGB starter1.jpg
MGB starter2.jpg
2M100 and M35J starter.jpg
Marina starters.jpg

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:32 pm

Ah, good information.

Might be the case of sending it off to the menders then.

Thanks

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:24 pm

After a bit more fettling, i've discovered that the M35J that i took off is the wrong starter for the car as the ring gear is chamfered on the gearbox side meaning it requires the inertia starter. Inertia starters appear easy to come by so happy days!

mickthefitter
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by mickthefitter » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:12 pm

I'm not an auto electrician but...do inertia starters normally have a separate solenoid, usually mounted on an inner wing, to operate them? As far as I know the piggy-back solenoid on the pre-engaged starter has a lever which shoves the pinion gear into mesh with the flywheel, milliseconds before the starter turns over. I'm not doubting your findings over the flywheel teeth but if I'm correct about the separate solenoid, you will need one of those too and to wire it in if you get an inertia starter.

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 am

yep you're correct.

It's a kit car that i've picked up only a quarter built. So i'm slowly picking it apart trying to see where the previous builder may have got to. Never crossed my mind that the starter he'd fitted was completely wrong until i've had a second and third look at it. Phoned a local company who are sorting me one out and a solenoid.

MARINAMADBAZ
Posts: 1320
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:15 pm
Location: LINCOLNSHIRE

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by MARINAMADBAZ » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:41 am

m35j 1.8 manual
m35j 1.7 manual
2m100 1.8 auto
2m100 2.0 auto Ital
cheers baz

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:46 pm

So today i've picked up the Inertia starter motor that the guy was sorting out for me.

Engine turns consistently now but far too slow to ever start i think. I took the plugs out to see what it was like with no compression but that made no difference.

Do you think that even though it's a newly built up starter, it hasn't got enough gravy to turn the engine fast enough?

I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment.

User avatar
balmy
Posts: 3349
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Torquay, Devon

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by balmy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:44 pm

Either poor battery or poor earth?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
1974 Marina Tc Coupe - 1950CC
1982 Morris Ital HL Estate - 7600 miles from new
1992 Lada Niva Cossack - brilliant
2008 Ducati 1098R TB21 LE 200bhp/99lb/ft of a monster on two wheels. All from 1198cc
1998 Laverda 750 Formula-rare
1997 Ducati 916 Senna - Awesome
!974 Honda CD175-awaiting resto - now stripped

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:53 pm

I took the battery off my Range Rover and that made no difference.

Could possibly be a poor earth so I'm gonna go buy all new cables tomorrow and try a rewire.

david painter
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:52 pm

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by david painter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:27 am

Be best to measure the volt drop in earth circuit and check you are getting 10 volts at starter under cranking earth volt drop should not exceed 0.50 volts cranking ideally 0.25 volts
Dave
volt-drop11.jpg

blueplasticsoulman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:09 am

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by blueplasticsoulman » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:24 pm

Everything seems good. Made new cables, got good clean earths by sanding. Still not turning quick enough even with a 180amp booster on. I reckon the starter that the local guy made me isn't up to the task.

Can anyone point me to the correct Inertia starter please? There's a 2m100 on eBay https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2734479057 but someone posted above that the 2m100 was for the automatic.

mickthefitter
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: Starter Motor Replacement

Post by mickthefitter » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:11 pm

The only reason the automatic was mentioned was because the automatic is supposed to create more drag to turn over, hence the starter motor is reckoned to need more guts. As far as I know (though my experience is limited to my car, workshop manuals and advice on this forum) the starter motors are interchangeable whether for automatics or manuals. The Lucas designation only applies to the electric motor parts anyway, just like the M35J, which is why you see motors listed seeming to be what you need that have the flywheel end opposite handed for a different car.

Post Reply