What did you do to your Marina today?

[First-Car as Marina]

I'd try another starter, REW did the same thing killing all the lights, etc when I turned the key and it was a new battery so couldn't have been that, but putting the starter from PDA on fixed that . Some other things I think it might be are: blockage in fuel line, fuel pump, points closed up like on REW, condenser knackered, maybe ignition coil.

Hope you get it sorted, I'm sure you will

[mickthefitter]

I'd try another starter, REW did the same thing killing all the lights, etc when I turned the key and it was a new battery so couldn't have been that, but putting the starter from PDA on fixed that . Some other things I think it might be are: blockage in fuel line, fuel pump, points closed up like on REW, condenser knackered, maybe ignition coil.

Hope you get it sorted, I'm sure you will

Is the starter going to have to be jammed solid for that to happen Alex? Like it's sapping all the battery power but not turning over? I know when mine died with (I think) a badly worn commutator it just clicked but pretty much everything else looked normal. Not that I'm in any way disputing what you found with yours, I'm just trying to figure out what might cause what. At the very least if Gareth gets the starter off and connects it straight to a battery (safely, like held in a vice) it should spin up unless knackered, as that's what the guy tried with mine when I took it in and it did nothing.

[david painter]

Have a look at my thread. Daignosing Non Start Engine Wont Turn Over, use this with my Lucas Test Cards, follow test card 2. This provides the information required to make an accurate Diagnosis.
Dave

[First-Car as Marina]

I'd try another starter, REW did the same thing killing all the lights, etc when I turned the key and it was a new battery so couldn't have been that, but putting the starter from PDA on fixed that . Some other things I think it might be are: blockage in fuel line, fuel pump, points closed up like on REW, condenser knackered, maybe ignition coil.

Hope you get it sorted, I'm sure you will

Is the starter going to have to be jammed solid for that to happen Alex? Like it's sapping all the battery power but not turning over? I know when mine died with (I think) a badly worn commutator it just clicked but pretty much everything else looked normal. Not that I'm in any way disputing what you found with yours, I'm just trying to figure out what might cause what. At the very least if Gareth gets the starter off and connects it straight to a battery (safely, like held in a vice) it should spin up unless knackered, as that's what the guy tried with mine when I took it in and it did nothing.

That's one of the things it could be, being seized, as you say it'll try and take all the power to turn the engine over, hence the lights going out on the dash.

Mine would crank the engine a couple of times then nothing, just the click. I think it was weak/seized, or there might be a short in it possibly, but it couldn't turn the engine over very well on the couple of cranks, but when I connected REW to my brothers car made it worked a bit better, but not too fantastic from memory. Once I had it off the car the drive would flick out by hand, but wouldn't return to its 'rest position' as such and get stuck half way every other flick, hence why sometimes it would crunch on the ring gear then start to try and crank the engine over again, although nothing would happen. Testing it off the car is a good idea and should show if it's ok or not. Testing it off the car electrically didn't work for me as it wasn't seized completely, so didn't show anything wrong off the car, but once refitted it still didn't want to know

[mickthefitter]

How electricity flows isn't one of my natural instincts, I admit. After I posted above I wondered if the coil windings in the starter had failed, that might result in the characteristics Gareth described. According to my Autobooks manual 'dim' lights but no starter rotation when the key is turned points to a weak battery and/or an interia starter jammed in mesh. Because the assumption is, the dimming lights are because the starter is taking current. If the lights didn't go dim, the starter wouldn't be taking current so then you've got to check to see if current is reaching the solenoid when the key is turned. Of course another potential alternative is something wrong with the ignition switch or the wiring loom, but obviously the most likely things to go wrong first are the ones to check first. Gareth mentioned a dodgy alternator, so is his battery not fully charged?

[First-Car as Marina]

That's a good point actually Mick, could be the battery as he did say the alternator is playing up?

[MarinaCoupe]

The problem, can often be the to do with the starter solonoid. It works by connecting the battery power to the starter motor itself. When you turn the key it energises the solonoid and throws the connection making a physical electrical contact. The contact patch spark erodes each time the starter is used, so over time the contact patch is reduced. To begin with there is engough contact for the electricity to flow, but overtime it reduces so that the starter can’t turnover so well. Finally the contact erodes so much that when the solonoid energises the contact is not made and all you hear is a click.

You can get the solonoid reconditioned, or you can buy a kit and do it yourself for £10 or £15.

[david painter]

When the diagnosis in my above post and the threads are followed the correct diagnosis can be obtained with just a Volt Meter without even having to consider try and measure amps ( current) a Starter motor takes approx. 100amp this is usually measured using a inductive clamp.
1 Check Voltage at battery should be 13.8 volt fully charged 12 volt is sufficient below that charge / replace battery as required
2 Check battery Voltage while cranking starter should be above 10 Volts if below as above charge / replace battery
3 carry out same voltage test as above at starter solenoid result shout be same 12 volts at rest 10 volts under load if below check battery positive voltage check for volt drop ( done by connecting negative lead of multi meter to battery positive and multi meter positive to starter solenoid under cranking meter should read less than 0.25 Volts if above you have a fault lead/ connection
4 Repeat above test on starter result as above
5 Check body and starter earths for volt drop under load again should be below 0.25 Volt

The above testing can be carried out with a cheap Digital Multi Meter in about 10 mins without any dismantling.
T make starter work you need 10 volts under load ( cranking) at main starter terminal and less then 0.25 volts in the earth side under cranking. In addition you need a trip voltage at starter solenoid from Ignition switch this again must be above 10 volts when cranking.
The last thing I would be doing is going the effort taking the starter off and powering it up in the vice. All this tells you is motor turns without load. Some cars can take upwards of 2 hours to remove and refit starter when a poor connection on battery can be fixed in a few mins !
Dave

[Morris McKinnon]

Cheers guys. I didn't have a lot of time to look at it today but I think what's happened is water has got in to the starter and most of the electrics. It's soaking wet under the bonnet. When I turn the key it literally cuts the power, the key springs back to the second position and is dead. The dash lights will came back after about ten minutes but the same will happen again if I try turning the key. The starter is good (when it turns over) but I think damp has got in to it. Battery is good with good connection. I'm not too worried about the alternator at the moment. The charging light dimly glows but has been like that for a couple of months, so again it might be damp in the wiring or the alternator itself. When the weather gets better I'll have another go but it's impossible to do anything at the moment as it's so wet out there, even for Wales it's been really bad this year.

[david painter]

What you describe is a classic case of a bad (poor connection) at battery and of body earth.
Dave

[Morris McKinnon]

Yes, I did have an issue with the engine earth strap a few months back which caused the same issue. I did clean it up and fitted a new screw to the chassis rail that holds it, it's likely come loose or has rusted again.
I'll check the earth strap to the inner wing also.

[Morris McKinnon]

I found the issue that was killing the electrics..

This pin was completely rotten, took a while to find! I cut it off and replaced the spade connector on the wire to a ring type and all is now good

[First-Car as Marina]

Nice one, glad you found it . It's always satisfying when you find the problem and fix it!

[Morris McKinnon]

Nice one, glad you found it . It's always satisfying when you find the problem and fix it!

It was a bit of a head scratcher as it was hidden behind the perfectly fine spade connector Good news now is the alternator light doesn't glow any more which it's been doing for months, it also doesn't "hiccup" now either when driving along. Crazy the issues such a little part was causing.

[balmy]

Met up with Phil, Ian and Tim at a meet in Somerset. Huge turnout of cars. A great way to start the year.