Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

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JoshWard
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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by JoshWard » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:29 pm

The easiest way is to disconnect the track rods and turn each upright. That will prove whether the stiffness is in the rack or the trunnions. Grease spilling out (and popping the grease seals in the process...) doesn't mean a lot, as the pin can still be partially seized. They usually are on very low mileage cars due to lots of standing about.
Club archivist/chief anorak
1936 Ford Model Y- On loan from the CCLP
1967 Triumph Herald
1971 1.3 DL Coupe (VRU362J)
1971 1.3 SDL Coupe (JGC240K)
1971 1.3 SDL Saloon (OVW292K)
1971 1.8 SDL Coupe (MCU274K)
1980 Ital 1.3 HL (NPB34W)

mickthefitter
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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:17 pm

Oh good, seeing clean grease come out is bad! :o

It's a well made point, about disconnecting the track rods. Having just de-evolved into a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal, on account of the fact I went in my garage to put the wheels back, and decided to look at the oil seeping past the steering rack bellows, and spent two hours in fading light, with an LED worklight, trying to change two petrol pipe clips on the track rod end of the bellows, I've decided I'm right. My garage isn't meant for working on cars Marina sized. Its meant to keep the rain off! :lol: There's just no room to work. I've been doubled up in positions I didn't know I could still get into, but found I couldn't get out of. And the street outside my house where I used to work on cars in nice weather, is no longer an option. Somebody else is nearly always parked there. I'll see what happens at the next MoT. If there's a problem, I'll pay to get it done. If not, I'll live with it for now. Thanks for the suggestion though. It's worth knowing.

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First-Car as Marina
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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by First-Car as Marina » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:05 pm

This was the state of one of the trunnions on REW and the pin was so seized that even some serious hits with a lump hammer wouldn't shift it :lol:.
received_939012182940281.jpeg
I can't think of anything else to try apart from what's already been suggested, but it will probably be something straightforward, it always is :thumbup:. Unless something's been overtightened somewhere? :think:

Alex
1976 1.3 DL Coupe - Retired daily after 2.5 years, smashed up, now being fixed (PDA 827R) (Lumpy)
1971 1.3 SDL Saloon - Rotting into the front garden, will resume in 2021 (VGV 616K) (Rusty)
1971 1.3 DL Coupe - MOT'ed and on the road, used as much as possible (REW 5K) (Tigger)
2013 Ford Focus Zetec S - Very economical and a great car in general

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:38 pm

Thanks Alex. I'm sure is going to be either tight swivels or a dodgy rack.
Bit hacked off (as in worrying a bit, not taking the hump) when Josh said grease coming out can pop the seals. I even got a bit coming out on my old Mk1 in the 1980s using that palm-sized push-on grease gun thing, and that was virtually useless! :lol:
In my days as a maintenance engineer in a factory that made electric wire and cable, it was normal to see grease coming out of big pedestal bearings and out of bearing housings on high speed machinery when we pumped grease in - that way we knew there was some in there!
Unfortunately in my middle age I'm not as keen at getting stuck in and stripping things down as I was when I was in my teens and twenties. Sometimes I almost think that makes me a sham classic car owner, as my pet-hate question at car shows is "Did you restore it yourself?" Almost as if you are only allowed to own a classic if you build it from the ground up with your own fair hands! :lol: (which to be fair, a lot of people like yourself do). But I'm not a big-bucks pay-somebody-else-to-lift-the-bonnet type person. But I'm not keen on getting under cars and working on steering and suspension. And my location and property do not lend themselves to working on cars at home very much at all. I haven't started looking, but I am getting a bit fed up with the area where I am at the moment and am considering moving, and better garaging and more off-street parking would be pretty high up on the list of priorities. I always said I'd never move house for a car, and by itself it still won't make me, but it used to be pretty quiet where I live, but now there are so many multi-car households, and people having building work done with lorries backing down the street and struggling to get around the corner plot my property is on, that I just cannot get my car jacked up on the road outside any more and feel happy about it, even if the spot is vacant when I want to start. Which it rarely is. And my narrow garage was put up to house a Mini. With the Marina I can only walk past it sideways like a crab. Not good for jacking it up and working under wheel arches.

IVOR DENNEY
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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by IVOR DENNEY » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:20 pm

could you just disconnect the track rod ends and see what the rack feels like then, it might give then give you some idea if it is the trunnions

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:36 pm

Yes I probably could. Even in the confines of my garage. But before I do that, I'll put the narrower new tyres on and see what it feels like on the road. That was last night's sole job by rights, but I got the back wheels on and then ended up frigging about with pipe clips and steering rack bellows. One side the bellows were very loose on the track rod, as it was, and a new 12-14mm fuel pipe clip opened out, to get it over the track rod, and closed up again with the screw, went on without too much trouble. The other side wasn't as bad, but had still weeped oil, so with two more 12-14mm fuel pipe clips in my spares I took off the old one and could not for the life of me get any of the new ones to thread up and pull down once I'd got them over the bellows. But like a dog with a bone I don't give up once I start something and that's why my two hours passed with only the back wheels and one pipe clip replaced. I had to put the old one back on the nearside. What does it mean if I find either the suspension uprights, or the rack, are faulty? Realistically it means me getting hold of the parts and paying someone else to do it, as I can't do that kind of work in my garage. I think perhaps a preferable approach to me right now, is when I take the car for a fresh MoT, which it will get, even though it's exempt, is ask Glyn the garage man, when he's got the car on it's wheels but on the swivel pads, to pay particular attention to the rack and swivels, to see if he can tell if there's anything a bit funny with them. He cautioned the rack on my Triumph 2500 about ten years ago as that was getting tight spots that I occasionally felt on the road, though at the time I thought the problem was with the power steering pump, until he said to me, post-MoT, the car was getting ready for a new rack. And though a lot further back in time, my white Mk1 Marina failed the MoT twice on a seized trunnion which is why I find it difficult to believe that's the issue with the HL. But that's just me speculating at the moment.
Last edited by mickthefitter on Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:44 pm

david painter wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:30 am Mick there is a set of 13inc chrome trim rings on ebay listed for MG Midget I found them a while ago when deciding what to do on my MK3 Coupe just checked a set still listed item number 361290275036
Dave mg trim rings.jpg
I've actually purchased these trim rings and am waiting for delivery. They are £5-£6 dearer than the ones Dave pointed out to me but those ones don't look like they've got a cut-out for the tyre valve in the photo, and even though on Marina wheels the valve is fairly tight in the corner of the wheel rim and wheel disc, I felt a valve cut-out was a good idea. As expected my paint job on the wheels wasn't brilliant, with flaking paint and heavy brushmarks to contend with after my new tyres were already fitted, but at least they are a uniform silver and with the plastic BL hubcaps back on and some stainless rim finishers not many people will notice!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391490119899

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Morris McKinnon
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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by Morris McKinnon » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:00 pm

I remember my red saloon had a notchy feel when driving, as if there was a flat tooth on the pinion that had difficulty engaging in one of the rack grooves. It was a pain in the arse as I had to constantly balance on this 'flat spot'. Lining up after bends it would hit that part and I'd have to give the steering wheel a slight yank to get it over it. It turned out the n/s trunnion had worn oval. I greased them regularly and grease did come out of the boot but it wasn't getting all around. I replaced both trunnions and all was fine.

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by marina12 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:02 pm

The rings you’ve bought look like the ones I had- they have a tenacious grip on the rims rims! Nice looking too.

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:14 pm

I'm glad you like the trim rings!

My steering doesn't really feel notchy on the road as such, but it seems to need a spot of help back to centre after a corner, and on the old tyres at least, loaded up quite heavily on tight corners. You see I've been comparing it to my old white Super, which when the trunnion went on that, I could leave it on full lock nearly and it would drive in circles in a car park. The HL does largely self centre.

I think I'll take the advice about disconnecting the track rod ends now. It can wait till the weekend. I was itching to get the rims back on with the new tyres, to see how it felt, but its not happening in the evenings after work. At least if I do it, I should know. Any additional work will have to be done professionally though. If I can find the parts.

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by First-Car as Marina » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:01 am

mickthefitter wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:38 pm Thanks Alex. I'm sure is going to be either tight swivels or a dodgy rack.
Bit hacked off (as in worrying a bit, not taking the hump) when Josh said grease coming out can pop the seals. I even got a bit coming out on my old Mk1 in the 1980s using that palm-sized push-on grease gun thing, and that was virtually useless! :lol:
In my days as a maintenance engineer in a factory that made electric wire and cable, it was normal to see grease coming out of big pedestal bearings and out of bearing housings on high speed machinery when we pumped grease in - that way we knew there was some in there!
Unfortunately in my middle age I'm not as keen at getting stuck in and stripping things down as I was when I was in my teens and twenties. Sometimes I almost think that makes me a sham classic car owner, as my pet-hate question at car shows is "Did you restore it yourself?" Almost as if you are only allowed to own a classic if you build it from the ground up with your own fair hands! :lol: (which to be fair, a lot of people like yourself do). But I'm not a big-bucks pay-somebody-else-to-lift-the-bonnet type person. But I'm not keen on getting under cars and working on steering and suspension. And my location and property do not lend themselves to working on cars at home very much at all. I haven't started looking, but I am getting a bit fed up with the area where I am at the moment and am considering moving, and better garaging and more off-street parking would be pretty high up on the list of priorities. I always said I'd never move house for a car, and by itself it still won't make me, but it used to be pretty quiet where I live, but now there are so many multi-car households, and people having building work done with lorries backing down the street and struggling to get around the corner plot my property is on, that I just cannot get my car jacked up on the road outside any more and feel happy about it, even if the spot is vacant when I want to start. Which it rarely is. And my narrow garage was put up to house a Mini. With the Marina I can only walk past it sideways like a crab. Not good for jacking it up and working under wheel arches.

No worries :thumbup:. Sounds like either one of those two.
I always pump the grease in with a grease gun till it comes out the sides of the seals, that way I know its filled up.
I must admit, I sometimes get fed up with rolling under the cars getting covered in dirt and freezing in the winter, but I'm so tight that I won't pay someone to do it :lol:. Plus I always think "it'll be worth it in the end, which with REW it has been. Doing maintenance engineering myself, I understand what you mean about not being overly driven to work on the cars, it sometimes gets to the weekend and I don't really feel like ripping lumps off the cars, cleaning them up and servicing them, then refitting them, but somehow I get the motivation to do it. I wouldn't say you're a sham classic car owner, you're keeping it on the road and most of all you're enjoying it, which is all that matters. Although space is tight where I live after losing the storage, we can normally shuffle stuff around so I have a bit more room to do bits (even if it is outside). Hopefully you are able to get the space you need to help you work on your car more comfortably, as I can understand not really wanting to jack it up on the road with all the factors you've said.
1976 1.3 DL Coupe - Retired daily after 2.5 years, smashed up, now being fixed (PDA 827R) (Lumpy)
1971 1.3 SDL Saloon - Rotting into the front garden, will resume in 2021 (VGV 616K) (Rusty)
1971 1.3 DL Coupe - MOT'ed and on the road, used as much as possible (REW 5K) (Tigger)
2013 Ford Focus Zetec S - Very economical and a great car in general

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:07 pm

Pretty late in the afternoon I got to look at that float chamber that was flooding last weekend. I'd already prepped my new float chamber lids, which I'd fitted April time and then had to take off again when the car wouldn't start after winter, and I'd found one of them (the front one) wasn't letting any fuel in. Thinking it was faulty I'd put the old float chamber lids back on both carbs, and that's how it had been till the rear carb was overflowing last weekend. Well, just as I discovered no issues when I was examining the new float chamber lids (more in a moment) I found no issue with the old rear float chamber lid once I removed it. The gasket wasn't trapped and when I blew through the inlet pipe, in was functioning perfectly!

So I refitted both NEW float chamber lids with new paper gaskets from Mini Spares. I did buy a dozen, like I'd threatened, in case this becomes a regular thing. What I discovered with the new float chamber lids when looking at them last night, was that the tip of the needle seems to be made of rubber, and simply by them sitting in the box they came in, the float pushes the needle into it's seat and then it sticks. First time around I must have fitted the one that wasn't letting fuel in with the needle sticking in the seat, and the fuel pressure from the fuel pump wasn't enough to un-stick it. I found it took no effort at all for the needle to stick in the seat, so I had to make sure it was free when fitting the float chamber lid and make sure I didn't push the float upwards accidentally as I placed the lid on the chamber. The proper SU gaskets that came with my float lids when they were delivered were made of a reddish material that reminded me of something we used to make gaskets out of at Concordia, called Bellite I think, which may have had asbestos in it. However those gaskets had now been compressed twice - and the original reason why I wanted to replace the float chamber lids was the smell of petrol and wet gaskets when the car was running. Mini Spares gaskets are just brown gasket paper, but ever since I had an issue with shrinking cork gaskets on my Wolseley Hornet petrol tank sender (the effect of ethanol) and got a suggestion of coating the gaskets with soap, I went one better and bought a tub of tallow off Amazon and soaked the cork gaskets in melted tallow in a pan. And it worked. Now where there is petrol, I always like to soak my gaskets in melted tallow, and have done this with the Mini Spares ones. At the moment the carbs and floats are working perfectly.

I then discovered oil running down the back of the engine from a trapped rocker cover gasket. Glyn at my garage had trapped it when he worked on my car last June (2017) and I'd refitted it properly, but this time I'd done it when mucking about struggling to get the car going after winter, having had the rocker cover off to see it I'd got any stuck valves. I thought I might need to buy another new gasket but after re-tightening the rocker cover, after repositioning the gasket, it seems to be holding the oil in. Then I took the car out for what was meant to be a short run around town because it was getting late.

After a circuit around town on a very warm summer evening, I was looking at that temperature gauge and it was barely going past the correct half-way mark, pointing straight down. So I decided to head towards Castle Donington and have blast up the A50 towards Derby. I merged with the A50 behind an escorted wide load in the middle lane! I'd got room to accelerate up to 70mph and go into the outside lane before traffic behind me caught up, but almost inevitably someone in an SUV undertook me on the left and cut across in front to pass the wide load, next some ***khead in an black VW Golf with slammed suspension and a fat exhaust pipe came up alongside me on the left at speed, realised he'd left it too late to cut in front of me and sped past the wide load on the inside lane. You see, this is why people still ought to still be driving Morris Marinas and Ford Anglias. They feel too bloody invincible in their air-bagged low profile soft roaders and hot hatchbacks. If they were scared of flying off into the scenery they wouldn't all drive like idiots! :problem: Apart from that I had a nice drive and kept the car close to 70mph and 4000rpm. The temperature stayed good until my return blast up the A50 where it began to climb. Maybe there was a slight gradient going back towards home. The needle didn't leave the black and go into the red but when it was nearly 3/4 of the way across I eased off to 50-55mph and the needle began to come back to the middle, and settled near the middle once I was back at town speed. Idling on my drive while I checked the transmission fluid level, it was as happy as Larry. So the car STILL likes to get warm when it's being pushed. Of course currently I've got a 'winter' 88 degree thermostat fitted because of my previous comments about an extended warm-up time and cool running, after my radiator re-core, when I had the original 82 degree thermostat fitted. But I'm still not entirely content with the running temperature issues.

With the engine and transmission really hot, the auto transmission fluid still looked to be up to the correct level, despite the pink stains on the spill mat under the car where it stands. That's the next major (by my standards) issue to put right; fit a new sump pan gasket, filter, and re-fill with fluid. But, like I said last week, until I found the leaking carb float chamber, this car is getting nicer to drive.

Also, apart from lighter steering, those new 155/80/13 Firestones make the car feel more planted on the road than those old 175/70 Michelins with sidewall cracks. I think adhesion and tyre deformation was an issue with those old tyres, even though the treads were good. Also, I've re-discovered the printout of the eBay ad for the steering rack that was fitted by North Cowton Services, before I got the car. It says NOS. Not a recon. I'm wondering if the car had suffered that knocking bush problem, since there aren't any MoT advisories on the steering rack.

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:05 pm

I thought I'd bring you up to date with my tinkering last weekend. Following the previous weekend's run up and down the Derby bound A50 near Shardlow, on a warm evening, to test the limits of the 88C thermostat I'd fitted in the Spring (because of my previous experience of the engine seeming to be overcooled) I wasn't entirely happy with the temp gauge's needle swing to about 3/4 scale at 70mph up a very slight incline. All of which rectified itself once I'd eased off and headed back home. So I'd already bought a new 82C stat, rather than put back the old one, and I fitted that last Saturday. Then I decided to fit some Champion plugs I'd bought, found I'd got two sooty and two lean-burn looking NGKs that came out, one with a chipped nose, and ended up balancing and tuning the twin carbs, that I've detailed in another thread. The first chance I got to try the car out was last Sunday evening, when some of you were packing up and leaving Devon. I did the same run as before. Bearing in mind the weather was hot (although it was 8pm at night) around town the car seemed to warm up fairly quickly, then I headed for the A50. Unlike last time, this time around I did three return blasts up the A50, two and three lane carriageway at speeds between 60 and 70mph. Although I was never that far from home, I think I must have driven close on to thirty miles. This time what I saw on the temperature gauge encouraged me to keep going to test the car out, rather than head home and rest it. I wanted to push it, in this warm weather, in case I want to attempt a longer journey. Sometimes because of other traffic I was limited to about 60mph, which seems to be an ideal cruising speed for this car. On my Mk2 temperature gauge, there are two tiny white dots in the middle of the scale between blue and red, and while it took some time (relatively) for the temp gauge needle to exceed the halfway mark, at 60-65mph the point of the needle settled at around the position of the right hand dot, just a bit past the middle towards hot. At around 70mph, and the bit of an incline the road takes as you approach the slip road for Castle Donington, the temp gauge needle went a little bit past that dot towards red, but it didn't get as far as it did last week with the 88C stat. That's why I kept going around the roundabouts for another go - how hot would it get? I think for a 42 year old car doing 4000rpm at 70mph, if I go on a long journey, 60-65mph is perfectly good and the car seemed happy at that. It'll do 70mph without too much trouble, but it seems a bit cruel to keep it up. And a bit too much to expect. The brochures promote the 1800HL as an executive express, but I'm pretty sure a manual transmission car would be doing lower revs at 70mph than my automatic. Overall I was satisfied that it didn't seem likely to overheat or blow up if I do a longer trip in weather like we are having at the moment. Of course it begs the question, what was happening with the old stat? I've still got it and not examined it prior to going online and writing this, but as far as I'm aware it is opening and closing. I've said when I bought it, the car used to run at normal temperature round town on that old stat, but threatened to boil over if pushed to higher speeds (of course this was when I didn't know about the blocked exhaust and messed-up distributor). Then with the re-cored radiator and all the improvements that came after, the engine ran cool, something that hit home on my trip to Ferry Meadows last year when the temp needle was barely out of the blue by the time I got to Melton Mowbray. Of course I haven't got definitive proof the car isn't still overcooled in colder weather, with the new 82C stat, unless I drive it on some mornings when the ambient temperature is around 14C, but I've got a gut feeling, and am hopeful, that old stat is a little bit faulty and might have been opening too early.

What isn't clear, with the two different new thermostats (when you think both should be fully open at the engine's normal operating temperature of 90C), is why the engine ran slightly hotter under load fitted with the 88C stat, than it did with the 82C stat. If anything I think the evening temperatures were higher last Sunday, when I tested the 82C stat, than they were the week before when I tested the 88C stat.

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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:46 pm

Another electrical failure on NNN on the eve of the MoT it shouldn't really need, but it's sorted now.
Two failures actually, and they've become regular events.

I went out to the garage to fix the horn. It was working very intermittently, usually not. Like last year, I dismounted the horns and cleaned up the contacts and mounting points. Remounted, they were still intermittent. Then repeated pressing of the stalk start to produce increased numbers of 'honks'. I've got one of those battery isolator knobs fitted so I isolated the battery, and just kept gently but firmly operating the stalk. When I connected up again, the horns worked every time. Sorted!

Then I checked the windscreen washer, that I thought was working....

I'm now on my third washer motor, including the one that was on when I got the car. That wouldn't work when I wanted an MoT, so I stripped it, got it working, but then back on the car it leaked very badly and for some reason I couldn't find out why. So I binned it and got one from Mini Spares. That saw me through last year's MoT.

So earlier this year going through the car's systems I found the washer motor not working again. Volts at the wires, I took the motor off and checked it with a spare battery. Very intermittent. Again I stripped it to expose the impeller, found the motor worked without it, put it back together, tried it on the car (nothing), back to the spare battery, still intermittent. I played around for a while, then gave up, and ordered another new one from Somerford Mini. That one came branded Wipac, which I found reassuring. (The Mini Spares one was unbranded). Bolted on the car, the Wipac one worked. Then I left it till this afternoon and found it not working again. Which is very inconvenient with an MoT first thing in the morning.

Wipac motor on a spare battery, it spun freely. Wipac motor on the car, nothing. Except the motor got a bit warm. Multimeter on the spare battery, 12.5 volts. Multimeter on the car, ignition on and stalk pressed in, 11.5 volts. Could it be the voltage drop? Engine running, mutlimeter says 13.5 volts at the spade terminals for the washer motor. Engine running and motor fitted, nothing. It just gets warm. Why???

Electrics not being my subject, I could only suppose the VOLTS were there, but not enough current. I know current is power, but it's so long since my college days of electrical work I cannot remember why you can have 13.5 volts for a 12 volt motor and it still won't turn.

Anyway I had a spare 30amp relay from when I did Kilroy's modification to the starter motor circuit. That relay had been meant for the headlights but I never did the mod. Since I didn't have a wiring loom to figure out I sussed out this one myself. As expected the two wires meant to connect to the washer motor pulled in the relay's coil when the stalk button was pressed, and I took a wire from the battery, around the engine bay, across the bulkhead to the switched side of the relay, then another wire from the other switched terminal on the relay to the live terminal on the motor, and then a spade connector from the negative terminal on the motor to an earth point at its base. I've now got a powerful stream of water hitting the glass. Remembering Dave Painter's warning about my 'hot wired' ignition solenoid when I got the car, with a permanent live straight to the solenoid, I routed my live wire from the battery through the Lucas fusebox put behind the battery tray that somebody put there, to run the Kenlowe fan from, that I removed ages ago.

I'm not 100% happy running a wire across the bulkhead from the battery side to the washer side, but I didn't have a lot of choice tonight. I might look at slightly re-routing it or at least get some sleeving to protect it from metal edges and get some of those sticky fixers that tie-wraps pull down to, to secure things, but it's not too bad for an hour's work. I intend getting another relay to keep in because I don't know what will go next!

In the pictures where I'm showing the route of the live wire from the battery, follow the brown wire. The metal tab on the battery terminal was also put there by somebody else, the same person who wired in the Kenlowe fan and fuse box.
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mickthefitter
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Re: Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

Post by mickthefitter » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:50 am

The Marina got its 'modern' MoT, but had to have the mixture weakened to get through the emissions. The CO was 5% volume, its now 3.9%. However I believe it is running lumpier when held in Drive at traffic lights, and I don't want any more overheated spark plugs through running weak like it was before (on two cylinders). Before the day is through, I'll be back out with the Colortune making it run like I want it to.

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