Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

[mickthefitter]

Firstly - when you turn either hub - something else must turn.
Either the propshaft or the other hub - but turn they must.

Generally, worn out rear wheel bearings announce themselves by making noises while you are driving along.
The bearings are readily available, and often as a kit which includes two seals per side.
The problem is in getting the hubs off the driveshaft taper - can require immense force.
I prefer to loosen the hub retaining nut a few turns then drive about until it loosens itself.

I often find when turning hubs or brake drums that it feels like a cement mixer is attached somewhere - but it seems that they just feel that way...

Well now I'm very perplexed as I'm convinced that when I first removed both back wheels with the back axle suspended on axle stands, and turned the offside brake drum, neither the propeller shaft or nearside drum moved. Feeling that this was impossible, but concerned about the lumpiness I felt, I moved to the nearside one and found the same thing. Then I reached under the car and turned the prop shaft by hand, because I was beginning to wonder if I'd got a broken half shaft or diff, and then both drums moved in the same direction. Subsequently the drums then began to seem to move in opposite directions when I turned one. I'm going to have to revisit this issue to see if I was initially mistaken or if in fact there is a more serious underlying issue. It it POSSIBLE under any circumstances for something to break and give rise to what I described, yet still permit driving to take place?

[mickthefitter]

Noises as said: mine when driven and the bearings were on the way out made the 'warrum warrum ' noise that varied in line with speed of travel. Did try to put it off until the warm weather if there was no play in the bearing. Nastiest bit was getting the hub off the shaft. Had spares that had been separated just in case. Seem to remember replacing more often than would expect but was using pattern parts.

I agree, I would have expected noise. Okay my Marina isn't as quiet as a modern car and I have detected some resonance when coming off the power between 50 and 60mph, but while I've never before had a wheel bearing fail in a car of mine, I once had use of a company Ford Mondeo that had a bad wheel bearing and it sounded like it had a Merlin engine up front as soon as it started rolling, getting louder related to speed. Nothing like that on my Marina.

[mickthefitter]

Marina bearings different to MGB. But almost sure same as a 4 speed TR7 and Dolomite, as long as its not a Sprint.
Dave

Thanks Dave. I think, depending on whether I was right about the lost motion in the diff or if I was in a waking dream again, it might be a case of taking the car back to where I had it fixed last time to get a professional opinion on whether or not the bearings have gone. Something seems very strange. I've ridden in cars with whining diffs. Nothing like that apparent in mine either.

[Morris McKinnon]

That wheel brace looks original to the car. It's the same one as in all three of my Marinas, same colour too.
We recently changed a rear bearing on my 71 saloon, took more than thirty tons of force to remove the hub! It even broke the gauge on the press. The thing shot out of the garage like a cannon with the loudest bang I have ever heard! We found the hub outside, we didn't even see it go. The nut was loosened a couple of threads but obviously did nothing to hold back such a force so be careful when changing rear bearings, it's scary!

[mickthefitter]

I won't be the one doing it, Gareth! Some jobs I'll do, some I won't. That's on the 'no' list!

[Kilroy]

For one hub to turn without turning either the propshaft or the other hub, the spider gears would have to be stripped.
If the spider gears were stripped there would be no forward or reverse motion in response to releasing the clutch when in gear.
That is - total wipeout.
There can be occasions when the spline on either halfshaft may become partially stripped, but in such scenarios, the worst case is in attempting to drive the vehicle.
Yours seems to do that ok.

[MarinaCoupe]

Don't forget that there are three rotating parts. If you are turning a hub, then the propshaft may be turning, rather than the other hub.

Put the gearbox in fourth which will effectively lock the propshaft and try turning the hub again. The other hub should now turn.

[david painter]

If the car drives forward and back you must have something turning, if not you have broken halfshaft/ axle. You will not have any drive at all! As for the roughness I suspect just the normal sound of the Sun and Planet gears turning in the diff If you do not have a whirring noise on the road and given your recent MOT, I would not suspect you have a wheel bearing problem. As for removing the Hub VL Churchill did a special tool for removal on the car before halfshaft removed, similar to picture. But only undo nut two turns so hub don't fly halfway down the street!!! Best tactic for removal is tighten bolt up a few sharp clouts with a good hammer, retighten forcing screw then a good sharp hit with hammer on end of forcing screw. Usually breaks the taper.
Dave

[mickthefitter]

My initial thoughts, and hopes, when I had the first rear brake drum removed (a few days ago now) so I was turning the hub with the studs sticking out, was that I was feeling roughness from the planetary gears, particularly since I was turning the gears with the hub, and not the gears turning the hub via the engine and drive shaft, as in normal operation - so I thought I might be turning the gears in such a way as they weren't bedded into. The noise from the 'notchiness' sounded as though it was inside the bearing housing though - but I wondered if it was noise transmission from the gears, to the end of the drive shaft. It's just something that I cannot remember coming across before, although it is probably a very long time since I've had the drums off a rear wheel drive car with both wheels up in the air at the same time. I've certainly so far had no impression of diff whine or bearing rumble or drone from the car. I intend to re examine this impression I had of me turning one hub and neither the opposite brake drum or drive shaft turning. I agree it makes no sense. Perhaps I was mistaken - but I need to take another look to make sure I was, because I spent several minutes looking at this issue, it wasn't just an instant snap decision I made and then moved on to something else.

[mickthefitter]

Okay I've adjusted my front wheel bearings and after I'd done that I jacked the rear end up again to look at this issue of 'noisy bearings' in the axle (or not), and my perception that originally when I was turning one hub a few days ago, nothing else on the axle was moving. I can say today that I appear to have been very, very wrong about that. I didn't take the wheels off the back end today, while when I did the job a few days ago, it was down the the bare brake drums or hubs, but at that time I was convinced I could see the brake drum at the other end of the axle to me, completely stationary when I was turning the one nearest me. Today the wheel opposite the one I was turning correctly went the other way. and when I wedged it with my stretched out leg and foot, the prop shaft began to turn. So all okay there then. All I can say about that is, I must keep entering the Twilight Zone. In fact I am convinced I'm entering the Twilight Zone, because while I had my Volvo C30 parked in front of my house today, while I did the wheel bearings on the Marina on my driveway, an elderly neighbour backed into the Volvo! I was working on the Marina's wheel bearings so I could use it for work next week, while the Volvo went in for paint ON THE BACK END, after somebody hit it in Derby, only about four weeks since it was LAST PAINTED, after somebody hit it in a Co Op car park in Castle Donington, and now the bloody thing has been HIT AT THE FRONT AND NEEDS PAINT AGAIN! All this after the Marina kept getting chunks knocked out of it at the Ilkeston show last weekend, and somehow collected a new dent when I took my dad to the dentist in it! To say I'm stressed out about people hitting my cars at the moment is something of an understatement.

Anyway here is a video I uploaded to YouTube, https://youtu.be/ohvu4SJc5Bw of the noise my hubs make when I turn the wheels while the back axle is suspended in the air. Hopefully somebody can tell me whether this is normal or not, or if I need both rear bearings replacing, even though I cannot (at least so far) hear any whine or rumble when driving. The noise and notchiness, especially when the wheels (and/or brake drums) are removed, does seem to come from inside the hub, where the bearings are, but like I've said earlier, I'm not sure whether or not that's just noise transmission down the half shaft from the differential gears. I can't remember for sure the last time I had a RWD car with a solid axle suspended in the air to play with. It could have been a Cortina around 2005, but failing that it would be my original Marina in the early to mid 80s, so I can't really remember much about it.

[MarinaCoupe]

Something sounds sha**ed to me. Can you get someone to turn a wheel whilst you track the noise down underneath. The rear axle has five bearings, it could be any or all of them.

One Diff nose
Two diff bearings
Two hub bearings

[mickthefitter]

Oh lovely. Well, at least my original perception that something ain't right was correct. It'll have to go to the garage. It's too much for me to deal with. Then it'll probably be "Do you know anybody with a spare back axle?"

[mickthefitter]

I just nipped to the local garage with the video I took on my phone, and Glyn said "That doesn't sound like a wheel bearing, it sounds like the diff." Which is what I thought. It sounds like there are some gears too far into mesh. I'm going to let him have the car to investigate at some point soon, but I can't book it in yet because I'm going to need to use it for work.

[Kilroy]

Mick.
Am I correct in thinking that when you drive the car you do not notice any errant noises/behaviour from the rear axle.?
If that is the case - you are about to take a "well" car to the Doctor.
The Doctor will always find an illness if he looks long enough.

My approach is always to assume all is well unless proven otherwise.
Many original parts were better made than many replacement parts.
In my mind - replacing things that do not absolutely need it tends to encourage more problems.

Have a little faith in your Marina...

[mickthefitter]

Mick.
Am I correct in thinking that when you drive the car you do not notice any errant noises/behaviour from the rear axle.?
If that is the case - you are about to take a "well" car to the Doctor.
The Doctor will always find an illness if he looks long enough.

My approach is always to assume all is well unless proven otherwise.
Many original parts were better made than many replacement parts.
In my mind - replacing things that do not absolutely need it tends to encourage more problems.

Have a little faith in your Marina...

I've used the Marina for work this morning while my modern Volvo is in for paint (again), 11.5 miles at speeds up to 60mph, and I can confirm there's not a hint of unwanted drive train noise at all. Nothing to indicate anything is amiss. You may well be right Kilroy. Back when I worked in industry and an operator brought you to a machine that he thought had a fault, but which was running, sometimes (and this wasn't just me but something I learned from my foreman) there was no distinct case to answer and we used to say "Let it develop. When it gets worse, we'll find the problem." I think that may well be the case here. With the wheels off the sound seems to come from right inside the hub at the end of the half shaft, but it is the same both sides and I cannot see two wheel bearings at either end of an axle, which make no noise on the road, failing on a 27,000 mile (albeit 41 year old) car that has had reasonable care, notwithstanding the cock-ups it's suffered in the last five years, when people drag cars out of hedges and barns to restore and often still don't have to touch the back axle. The last classic cars I worked on were fwd Minis, and they didn't click like this when the drive wheels were turned, but I've got nothing else to compare with right now and in terms of drive line, my Marina drives fine.