Too Many Spares!

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JubileeNut
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by JubileeNut » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:58 pm

When I had to recon my gearbox due to knackered second gear, before the gearbox was removed I had no clutch judder, it was perfect.
When I had finished the rebuild of the box I decided to fit a new sleeve that the clutch bearing slides on. The old one was a steel type which showed some signs of scoring and wear. I fitted the new alloy type with a different bell housing to match the type of sleeve. Now got judder. These were the only 2 items I changed on the clutch side. The clutch its self stayed on the engine and had only covered about 1000 miles. No oil leaks or any other problems.
I can only assume that the steel sleeve was a later design and worked better?
I think the alloy part although new does drag more causing clutch judder. Again does depend on how warm the engine is. May be it expands more than the steel one?
the new part was fitted with special Duckhams grease which you only put a very light smear on the sleeve. I know this was the correct stuff as it came from my uncle who was a BL mechanic back in the time when he worked on these cars day in day out. He kept a pot of the grease! Along with all the BL tools
Can't remember the rest of the name for the grease but can find out. It is a dry grease which stops the parts sticking or collecting dirt.
Probably similar to the dry spray I use on my sons petrol go cart comet clutch system.
" Pru, Its Kicking off "
1973 Morris Marina TC Jubilee
2013 BMW 328i M Sport F31

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Morris McKinnon
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Morris McKinnon » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:05 pm

I know the spigot bush can cause judder if worn allowing the shaft to bounce around. I think they can be replaced with bearings but I've heard mixed reviews about them.

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Martec
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Martec » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:56 am

This is an ongoing subject and someone made the comment that the condition of 'clutch judder' has little to do with the clutch.

These are old cars and nothing is in the first flush of youth and often the aftermarket parts are not very good. Oil on the clutch will give clutch judder but as PHUK said it stops a sticking clutch, but there are far more culpits to look at.

Soggy engine and gearbox mountings, amazing but rubber doesn't last 40 years!
Rear axle wind up from tired springs, tired spring bushes and tired dampers is often missed (some american companies fitted one damper ahead of the axle and one behind).
The clutch release carrier sleeve is also a problem (Paul my dad as a mechanic said to always fit the sleeve dry!) BL in their cheapness crimped the channel that the release fork pins move in. This causes its own problem and is the cause of that familiar Creak. I remember refitted my mini engine after some repairs and being told off by dad for greasing the carrier, I had to thrash the engine to heat up and displace the grease..........it worked.

What is always missed it the roll of the distributor, IF you know how to set one, then the points gap is accurately set to 15 thou, but if there is 5-10 thou wear in the top spindle bush then the timing can move all over the place and cause the shaking. Electronic ignition fits nicely inside the dizzy and doesn't give a figg for the gap!

I'm an old fart, brought up on mini's, 1100's, Maxi and my new Marina, all these faults were understood and compensated for in my youth. We also serviced our cars at 6000 miles with new plugs, points, dizzy cap not so often and an oil change, cheap. we also tuned the engine, plugs points tappets timing and carb clean and it cured most of our problems.

I listen to people talking of changing one plug, adjusting one item and are disappointed by the result! Dad always said change the plugs, point and dizzy cap, oil change and then tune what you have, what is left is where your problem is.

But there again what did he know as an old dead bloody good mechanic, and me who grew up with these cars and kept them running for over 40 years.

Brian
Shopping trolley(Mazda3)
2000 3 Ltr manual Jaguar 'S' type (love it)
1972 TC Marina Coupe (comfy everyday car)
1961 3.8ltr MkII Jaguar (Back to carburretors)(A lot more comfy with correct springs)

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JubileeNut
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by JubileeNut » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:45 pm

Hi Dad,
Well I agree fitting dry is good and better than using any old lubricant or grease.
I must admit that the dry spray on graphite grease is top stuff when used on my sons comet clutch. Without it, the centre fugal clutch just jams up and gets stuck in high gear mode.
With a quick strip down apply brake cleaner or IPA to clean / degrease and only spray the sliding parts the clutch is like new. (You don’t spray everything though or you go now where)
Now I know that most grease or lubricant will attract dirt and very soon clog up this sort of part so yes fitting dry will be better. This special Duckhams lube is designed similar to the Graphite spray and is just for this type of application. Don’t think you can get it anymore? This tube was 30+ years old and is still fine to use.
Clutch judder was instant after rebuild so I doubt that the lube was causing the issue.
I think it is more likely the alloy part compared to the steel one is either warped or expands in a different manner or is just too tight.
I question why there were 2 designs? they both require different bell housings to fit as they fit a different recess machined in the housing.
When eventually I get time and can be bothered I will swap back the sleeve and bell housing.
When I had a mini the same guy said exactly the same regarding the mini setup, but not to the Marina.
It may be that my prop is causing some of the issue as well now, but most items like engine mounts and tuning have been well ruled out due to how many parts are new (Or were) on my car. Plus it was the only thing I changed it point towards the sleeve.
Am I grounded?
:D
" Pru, Its Kicking off "
1973 Morris Marina TC Jubilee
2013 BMW 328i M Sport F31

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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by david painter » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:47 am

My opinion is that when, you have changed something and you have suddenly got a problem, that did not exist before. Ie clutch judder/release bearing carrier, that needs to be investigated first along with anything else that has been touched during the repair first. If just start looking and altering other things that were working correctly previously, it is just possibly making things worse putting more unkown variables into the mix.
Dave

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JubileeNut
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by JubileeNut » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:19 pm

I agree
" Pru, Its Kicking off "
1973 Morris Marina TC Jubilee
2013 BMW 328i M Sport F31

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Martec
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Martec » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:39 am

Hi Son,

Everyone has there opinions and experiences and they are all valid until proved otherwise, as you know my car is not quite standard. When I have a problem I used to dismantle it, find the cause and try something else..........not necessarily BL parts. The possible causes mentioned above have all been either replaced or engineered out, but I didn't replace the crank seal and so have a leak and clutch judder from time to time.......no sticking clutch.

Another cause springs to mind, the loose nut behind the wheel. I teach Advanced Driving for the IAM and with the excepton of old lorry drivers none can change gear smoothly, they regard the clutch peddle as an ON/OFF switch and it takes training to rev up and feather the clutch. The result is wear and damage to the pressure plate, its very easy to blame everything else.

Brian

PS I have heard of the dry spray grease but never found or used it.

PPS the 1.3 doesn't have a rear crankshaft seal, just the daft scrowl that still lets oil out hence real clutch judder?
Shopping trolley(Mazda3)
2000 3 Ltr manual Jaguar 'S' type (love it)
1972 TC Marina Coupe (comfy everyday car)
1961 3.8ltr MkII Jaguar (Back to carburretors)(A lot more comfy with correct springs)

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Morris McKinnon
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Morris McKinnon » Fri May 05, 2017 9:43 pm

I still have tons of parts here. I'm never going to use all this and I need the space :lol: pm me if your looking for something.
I'm hoping to go to the nats so can bring some of the bigger things with me if need be.

Gareth

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timspencer
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by timspencer » Sat May 06, 2017 8:56 pm

Good mk1 rear bumper? Boot carpet, brown door pulls also mk1, rear door stainless trims?

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Morris McKinnon
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Morris McKinnon » Sat May 06, 2017 11:05 pm

timspencer wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 8:56 pm
Good mk1 rear bumper? Boot carpet, brown door pulls also mk1, rear door stainless trims?
I only have door pulls in navy. No carpet.
I've two rear bumpers but slight pitting on both, still usable. I'm pretty sure I have some rear door trims.

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timspencer
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by timspencer » Sat May 06, 2017 11:09 pm

Keep me posted mate, my rear bumper is quite tired.

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Morris McKinnon
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Morris McKinnon » Sat May 06, 2017 11:35 pm

timspencer wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 11:09 pm
Keep me posted mate, my rear bumper is quite tired.
Will do. I'll post a pic in the morning mate.

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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Morris McKinnon » Sun May 07, 2017 6:47 pm

timspencer wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 11:09 pm
Keep me posted mate, my rear bumper is quite tired.
Pics as promised Tim. Not sure if the pitting is too far for you but it's straight and solid so could be re-chromed if you chose to do so one day. I had a look for some stainless door trims and I only have four fronts! Typical :rolls:
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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by timspencer » Sun May 07, 2017 8:27 pm

Thanks Gareth it's about the same as mine so will keep hunting .

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Re: Too Many Spares!

Post by Morris McKinnon » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:59 pm

Popped up to Neath today to pick up even more spares! An old school garage is closing down and the owner want's to shift everything out. I found everything Marina related and chucked it all in a wheel barrow though I probably missed a ton more stuff as there's no way I had the time to go through everything there as most of the shelving was either buried or collapsed! He has a crazy amount of spares for BL, Ford, Vauxhall you name it going back to the fifties. Lenses, light units, electrics.. pretty much a massive auto jumble in doors! He's pretty much giving it all away. I filled a wheel barrow for fifty quid and bought a recon gearbox for twenty! He has another box and some cylinder heads but I just don't have the room for anymore stuff. If anyone want's his number pm me.
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