1.8HL auto - update

[palacebear]

I posted on here as a 'Newbie' back in January with a sort-of update about my low mileage Jade Green 1.8HL auto, formerly owned by, and much posted about by 'mickthefitter'.

Truth be told, not much has changed. Since January the car has been used for local shopping about once a week. The mileage has increased by about 190 miles to 28,890. Regular, if rather short journeys along with the use of super unleaded fuel has vastly improved the overall running although there's still a definate flat-spot until the choke can be pushed fully home. It's still a pig to start from cold sometimes but I'm assuming this is due to a combination of usually parking the car on a slope and seldom having more than a couple of gallons in the tank!

A shortage of cash means all the jobs I intended doing have been postponed. The car still lets in the rain so it stays under cover if the weather forecast suggests wer weather. The intermittent fuel and temperature gauge fault is still an issue. I had a brief attempt at removing the instrument pack yesterday in order to have a look at the voltage stabiliser, and replace a couple of suspect bulbs at the same time. I didn't get very far before I gave up. To be honest I wasn't in the mood to try disconnecting the speedo cable - a requirement when pulling the instrument pack fully. However, I must have done something right. Having reassembled the plastic bits, both gauges were giving higher and more realistic readings than they were before I started fiddling about.
At the same time, I discovered that the headlamp flasher isn't working any more. If my reading of the Haynes wiring diagram is correct, it's not a fuse. Everything else protected by the same fuse is working, except the clock, but that's another story! I'm assuming the switch is the culprit. That'll be the next bit of detective work I think.

[IVOR DENNEY]

Is main beam still working , because sometimes the contact wears down and stops the main beam from working which could be stopping the headlamp flasher from working . I have had the same thing happen some years ago on my TC , if you take the cowling off you may be able to see if anything is wrong its worth a try.

[palacebear]

Dip and main work correctly. Just the flash function currently not working, although it was last time I checked it, about two months ago. I know the cowl is going to have to come off but I'm reluctant. It's been broken in the past and bits of it have been glued back together internally. The previous owner had endless trouble removing/refitting it a few years ago when the choke cable was changed.

[balmy]

I’m sure someone would have a replacement if you did break it Rick.
Martin Wallis is probably your best bet.

[palacebear]

I've had a bit of good fortune regarding this today. The cars previous owner informs me that a spare cowl is lurking in the boot if I need it. I confess that in 7 months of ownership I still haven't had a rummage through the big crate of bits and pieces that came with the car.

In other news. I had a fiddle with the clock today, during which I blew a fuse (fuse #5 in the fuse box). I discovered the blown fuse had tiny strips of tin foil wrapped round its caps! I fitted a new fuse and the headlamp flasher worked... then stopped again... although the interior lights and horn (same fuse) were still working. I unclipped the fuse box cover again, and fuse #5 fell straight out! Curiosity drove me to refit the old blown fuse (minus foil!). It too fell straight out again. So... I've pinched up the fuse holder terminals with pliers. Refitted the new fuse which feels more secure now. Interior light, boot light, horn and headlamp flasher all working. (I've not tried the cigar lighter). I'm guessing that the wobbly fuse/foil combination was allowing enough current to pass for lower powered items such as the interior light, but not enough for higher powered things like the headlamp flasher, especially as the HL has four lamps to flash. The horn also seems better. It always sounded a bit hesitant but sounds more meaningful now! The clock, for which I made and connected a (previously absent) earth wire, worked for about ten minutes, whilst it was dangling upside down by its wires. As soon as I fitted it back into the centre console it stopped. I'll be looking for a suitable quartz replacement at some point in the future.

I didn't do anything with the voltage stabiliser today. Last time I used the car, my half-hearted fiddling had brought life back to the fuel and temp gauges. I'm sure it's just a poor connection. As the car isn't likely to get driven very far under present circumstances, I can live with the intermittent fault for the time being.

[JubileeNut]

Sounds like there was a bodge on the fuse/s then.
When I stripped out my car for restoration I used Cillet Bang on all the copper / brass contacts which took the tarnish off. I then rinsed and dried and polished some. Or if exposed to weather a contact lube.
So apart from one rear bulb holder which still gives a bit of a intermittent contact from time to time all is good.

[palacebear]

Historically there seems to have been a fair bit of electrical bodgery which is annoying on such a low-mileage car. It does prove that a low-mileage 44-year old car isn't necessarily a better car than one the same age with more miles behind it.

The previous owner invested a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears on the electrical systems. When he purchased it, it had a push-button starter hanging below the dashboard and a knackered starter motor. The push button was quickly removed and the starter motor rebuilt, although there is still slight doubt as to whether it's the right one for the car. At least there now is a relay in the circuit! Incidentally, the relay is protected by seperate fuse box, originally installed under the bonnet for an electric fan, which the car no longer has.

All the issues I've had in the past 7 months have been electrical. A broken wire somewhere in the loom between the battery and ignition switch (RAC to the rescue) which, with hindsight, may have been an unintentional legacy left behind after removal of the push-button starter. A tin-foil wrapped fuse causing its own brand of havoc. Rain ingress causing damp to seep into the fuse box, blowing fuses and leaving me with no side or tail lights. It's all part of the fun of ownership I guess!

[palacebear]

And now another mystery. The car, a Mk.2 has the later fuse box, located above the parcel shelf, with five fuse holders in it. Mine only has 4 fuses fitted, in holders 2 3 4 and 5. Nothing in holder 1. Referring to the Haynes manual, where the wiring diagram for the Mk.2 HL/GT contains numerous errors, my initial reading suggested that fuse 1 is only required for estate cars fitted with rear wash/wipe. The car's previous owner has been following my posts both here and elsewhere, and has alerted me to a possible issue (more historical bodgery) with the fuse box. Consequently I've re-inspected Haynes and the BL owners handbook. From this I find that the car should indeed have a fuse in holder 1. It protects the indicator, brake light, reverse light and heated rear screen circuits. All of these work yet I definitely don't have a fuse where it should be!

[MarinaCoupe]

The PO has by-passed the fuse, potentially and hopefully there is an in-line fuse protecting the circuit. I think the big power draw there is the heated rear screen, this really does need a fuse.

[mickthefitter]

I must admit I never saw the tin foil coated fuse - I wouldn’t have allowed that to remain if I had! Something in my memory says whatever paperwork in the history folder tells of a replacement fuse holder being fitted, mentions the original one being ‘burned’ or ‘melted’ - possibly caused by rain water getting in? That nasty starter button I removed, which was wired directly from the live side of the battery to the starter solenoid, had its own wiring which I removed fully when I did away with it. Whatever wiring break your RAC man found Rick, it wasn’t directly connected to that button. Again from something in either the history folder, or possibly scrappy confused notes on paper that were left inside the Haynes manual I got with the car, that starter button had originally been positioned under the bonnet, I suppose to help someone turn the engine over while servicing. Then when the car developed the issue where turning the ignition key only caused the starter to ‘click’ 50% of the time, and not turn, somebody extended the wires and put the button out of sight under the drivers side dashboard. It was effectively hot wired and live all the time, with no fuse in circuit. Neither I nor Mathewsons the auctioneers knew that live button was there. When they delivered the car to me on a trailer, 10 days after purchase, at a time when I urgently needed to get the business done and go to work, they got the car going and backed it off the trailer, but left it idling while we discussed whether or not they were going to take my previous classic away to auction next time they had one (they waived delivery fees if they got the car, but I was considering other options but like I said, was under pressure to get the job done and get off to work) and they said of the Marina “We’ve left it running for a few minutes because sometimes when you turn the key it just clicks, so we think the battery is low”. Nope. It was the weekend when exploring what I’d bought, and having experienced the ‘click’ many times, that I found the hot wired starter button hanging by the wires with a bit of peeling black tape covering the terminals, while kneeling near the open drivers door. The ‘what the hell is that?’ moment was quickly followed by the starter motor kicking over when I pressed the button, even though the ignition keys were in my pocket! But no, everything to do with that was removed when I fitted the relay with the assistance of a Kilroy from NZ on this forum. It was just two wires pushed through a grommet from the engine bay to under the dash, to make a circuit when the button was pushed. I wouldn’t worry about the starter motor not being the right one. Despite some opinion suggesting that one is for a 1300, the Haynes manual supplementary section lists that model of starter for that car, so personally I think it is the original and a BL cost-cutting move for the very bad times they were having in the mid 70s.

[palacebear]

I must admit I never saw the tin foil coated fuse - I wouldn’t have allowed that to remain if I had!

Michael. The dealer from whom I bought the car had used it for a few weeks prior to selling it. It's possible that the tin-foil-fuse treatment might be his doing. No way of knowing. At least it's been found and dealt with.

I'm conscious of sounding like I'm complaining a lot, which isn't the case. It's a mid-1970s car, thrown together by BL. In years gone by I've had a variety of Marinas of various types (Mk.1s a Mk.2 a Mk.3 and an Ital). Even during the 1980s when I owned these cars, it was obvious to me that the overall quality had deteriorated during the production years. The only 'new' feature to me, with this car, is twin carbs. In any event, buying this car was a step I took knowing that the chances of everything being plain sailing would be pretty remote - we suffer for our art I suppose!

[palacebear]

The PO has by-passed the fuse, potentially and hopefully there is an in-line fuse protecting the circuit. I think the big power draw there is the heated rear screen, this really does need a fuse.

As it happens, I used the HRW once, last autumn. I was surprised to find it worked perfectly, albeit very slowly!
On balance it's probably more effective to crack the windows open an inch or so and turn the heating up!

Seriously though, for peace of mind, the fuse box is now top of the list.

[mickthefitter]

Rick, I bought the HL auto from Mathewsons with exactly the same attitude as you - I knew I was taking a risk buying from an auction with limited opportunities to examine the car, also I’d never purchased anything from a live auction before, let alone a classic car. And the HL did generate a lot interest. But the final battle came down to me and one other, who I was later informed was a Mathewsons regular. I’d travelled 120 miles to see the car, and had revised my estimate and questioned whether to go ahead and bid when I saw the cheap respray it had had, which looked worse under fluorescent lights than it does in daylight. But I liked the interior, the rarity, the solidity and the cleanliness of the engine. Plus my ‘good’ Marina in the 80s had been a 1.8 auto, which is why I went after this car. I know you paid more than I did, at least the initial purchase price - I actually got about £200 less in the final sale than my purchase price including fees, but overall what I spent is probably very close to the dealers original advertised asking price. And I know the car isn’t mechanically perfect even now, but over my 3 years of ownership either I or my local garage did a heck of a lot of work which improved the car drastically beyond what it was when I discovered what I’d actually bought. My enthusiasm for the classic car scene, even though I do retain some, has been on the wane for some time as I became rather cynical about inflated values and strange concepts of classic cars being financial investments, which I am at odds with, but my skill levels and enthusiasm levels took a real beating while I’d got the HL. I tried to keep the faith but by April last year, with the SUs coughing and spluttering again, and my dad no longer around to take out to shows, when even in his infirmity we’d managed a few in my small Wolseley Hornet, while the HL mostly remained in my garage during his final years, I’d lost whatever love I had for it. I’ve still got fond memories of the 1.8 Super automatic I had between 1981 and 1985, but combined with the issues I’ve had with previous classics during the 2000s I can’t face buying anything else like that again. I stay in touch in case I can offer any guidance over things I did to the HL while it was mine, and also to possibly defend myself ( not necessarily from you Rick!) over things that may be discovered that were there before I bought it, though a lot of people on this forum kept up with my posts. I’m not sure the same can be said for Facebook.

[palacebear]

I stay in touch in case I can offer any guidance over things I did to the HL while it was mine, and also to possibly defend myself ( not necessarily from you Rick!) over things that may be discovered that were there before I bought it, though a lot of people on this forum kept up with my posts. I’m not sure the same can be said for Facebook.

I might sound dissatisfied with the car. Whilst it hasn't quite met my expectations, I do really like it. I enjoy driving it - despite present worldwide circumstance making the opportunities more limited than I or anyone else could have predicted a few months ago.

I don't play the blame game. I know from your own thread on here that you've addressed every issue you found with the car, and haven't introduced any new issues into the mix. In any event, what's done is done. Essentially it's a 44 year old car with several previous owners. Home-made 'fixes' are almost inevitable.

Pleased to know you're still keeping an eye on developments. I won't pester you with endless questions but will welcome your input if you consider it of value

[mickthefitter]

I might sound dissatisfied with the car. Whilst it hasn't quite met my expectations, I do really like it.

You sound far from dissatisfied with it Rick! When I had my lowest points I had a right good moan about it on here!

The thing that I’m sure a lot of people will find amusing, and I did mention it somewhere in my very early posts, is that at auction I didn’t realise the HL was twin SU. I should have known because I’ve a reasonable collection of 60s and 70s car brochures including many from BMC, BL and specifically Morris, but I didn’t consult them before driving to Thornton-Le-Dale, and in the auction room when I looked under the bonnet (and you had to ask for keys and were accompanied while viewing) I realised the car had a different air cleaner to my old Super, but I didn’t twig there was a second SU hiding behind it! I had mixed feelings when I found out I’d bought a twin carb car. Had it been a manual, with the issues I had, I would almost certainly have sourced the single carb manifolds and fitted a brand new single SU, but the automatic kickdown linkage and the unavailability of the single carb equivalent made that option a non starter. Steve Moss, the owner of the bronze HL that has appeared in Practical Classics several times, had his car converted to automatic but the kickdown linkage was a made up Heath Robinson affair, and last I heard from him it had affected the car’s drivability. I’m actually off automatics completely now even though I had a Mercedes for a decade, but that’s got as much to do with an awful Vauxhall Astra I owned as it has the HL.