Fast Marina Magazine

Nice one Gil, great analysis of what and why.

That is actually very interesting Gill. Keep it up

MarinaCoupe wrote:Nice one Gil, great analysis of what and why.

Thanks guys,
Didn't know if it was a step to far from the marina, but it was all I could offer at the moment.
Chris, sent you mail.
Gil.

Email received Gil pics to follow.

PHUQ wrote:Yeah, it's an ex Postie crewbus Gil, it's lost the second row seats (mounting brackets still in the floor) and the bulkhead though. I think the Royal Mail and a couple of councils were the only people mad enough to still be buying such an antique in 2004, I can't imagine they were selling many to private buyers by then.

Thanks for putting up the piccies Chris.
Matt you want a single tripple seat if you can get one, like this RAC one .
& ive got a pr of front telescopic shockers for a pilot if your intrested.
Gil.

balmy wrote:That is actually very interesting Gill. Keep it up

Agreed, cheers Gil

The Convoys got two Ford engines- first the transit "Banana" engine which is sounds like it's probably the best of the bunch, and then the Duratorq. I got a Pilot 'cos it's the only one that fits on the drive! Wanted an LDV because they've still got a proper chassis, unlike the equivalent transit etc, and as such don't suffer from rot quite as badly (well, they do, but it takes longer before it affects the bits that matter!). Than and base spec no frills motoring is much more by bag really than modern over tech'd stuff.

Interesting you say about special vehicles, a lot of the ex- Council ones are tailgates instead of rear doors which I think is pretty unusual. I suppose it was their adaptability and relatively narrow track that made them reasonably popular with urban fleet buyers. This one is far from a shining example but when it dies I'll be looking out for a nice one to replace it I reckon. That RAC convoy looks ace, would love something like that if I had space! This is my "car" currently so the ability to fit in supermarket car parks is an advantage. I'm just waiting for a set of seats to come up locally.

To go even further off topic, have a couple of snapshots of part of the reason I've bought a van...

When I was on the NEC stand in November, someone (can't remember who) told me that the Sherpa/Pilot/200 series was the width that it is because it would fit down the car production line, so they could reuse a car track.


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That's a possibility, but I think it's mostly a result of using components (including the front axle, and significant amounts of the body & chassis) from the 60's Austin vans- they may well have been built on the same lines as their predecessors. AR Online has a good summary of the "development" history. They were proper parts bin specials from day 1, they just had to start casting the net further and raiding more and more company's bins as the vehicles got older! A very successful vehicle really considering- not unlike the Marina in many ways. Not as good as the competition in terms of features, refinement, creature comfort etc, but priced appropriately and did the job they were built to do with a minimum of fuss, being fairly tough and easy to maintain.

It is my understanding that much of the body from the B post back is largely J4 in fact the roof is the same panel totally unaltered the rear doors are basically J4 with different window apatures
Dave

david painter wrote:It is my understanding that much of the body from the B post back is largely J4 in fact the roof is the same panel totally unaltered the rear doors are basically J4 with different window apatures
Dave

A few questions there, Looking at Wikipedia (A lot of this was before my time)
Davids right. Going back to the Sherpa (time line 1974/82. It was sired from the Morris/Bmc J4s of the 1960s.
Then engine change's 1978 (replaced1692cc & 1798cc B series engines to 1.7 /2.00) "O" series but retaining the B series diesil .
A Few months later re-badged as a MORRIS...(. now where have I heared that before) .
Other name changes 1981 Freight rover so re-badged again. 1982/87 K2 series was short lived, but offered an lpg conversion &a 4wheel drive version. Changed to the 200 series 1984/89 given square headlights &altered rear lights, Hmm seem to have that as well.... A wider bodied 300 was offered with a 2.5 Diesil engine
A police van with 3.5 v8 now available.
The B series diesil now bites the dust ,replaced by "O" series based perkins prima ,same as maestro / montego.
DAF went T**ts up in 1993 & there was a management buy out becoming LDV LTD.
OK my era now...
Another face lift , in 1994, designated BULLDOG & we have the Pilot /Convoy range....
The face lift was allegedly about £ 3 million.... When you think that the new sprinter design was in the region of £100 million.... you can see what we were up against..
. Still .the Pilot was voted the National van of the year 2007... Despite its production ending in 2006.so they were punching over there weight...
The rest I covered before, apart from Chris's guy at the NEC & his car production line?.
Well it was designed so that all vehicles would go down them, in fact they were always mixed.
Convoys, pilots all derivatives, tippers, busses, pannel vans,whatever.
I can only think he was confusing the assembly line (track) with the narrower track of the pilot
which was good for narrow streets &country lanes?...
I think your'e right Matt, it was a no frills vehicle but long lasting,&lots off options, the basic style never changed. The chassis pretty much the same, but with short /standerd &long wheelbase built in lots of carring capacitys & fitted up how you wantsd it,
Which the big boys couldn't be asked to do at the time...

Just shows , they got something right.....
Gil

david painter wrote:It is my understanding that much of the body from the B post back is largely J4 in fact the roof is the same panel totally unaltered the rear doors are basically J4 with different window apatures
Dave

A few questions there, Looking at Wikipedia (A lot of this was before my time)
Davids right. Going back to the Sherpa (time line 1974/82. It was sired from the Morris/Bmc J4s of the 1960s.
Then engine change's 1978 (replaced1692cc & 1798cc B series engines to 1.7 /2.00) "O" series but retaining the B series diesil .
A Few months later re-badged as a MORRIS...(. now where have I heared that before) .
Other name changes 1981 Freight rover so re-badged again. 1982/87 K2 series was short lived, but offered an lpg conversion &a 4wheel drive version. Changed to the 200 series 1984/89 given square headlights &altered rear lights, Hmm seem to have that as well.... A wider bodied 300 was offered with a 2.5 Diesil engine
A police van with 3.5 v8 now available.
The B series diesil now bites the dust ,replaced by "O" series based perkins prima ,same as maestro / montego.
DAF went T**ts up in 1993 & there was a management buy out becoming LDV LTD.
OK my era now...
Another face lift , in 1994, designated BULLDOG & we have the Pilot /Convoy range....
The face lift was allegedly about £ 3 million.... When you think that the new sprinter design was in the region of £100 million.... you can see what we were up against..
. Still .the Pilot was voted the National van of the year 2007... Despite its production ending in 2006.so they were punching over there weight...
The rest I covered before, apart from Chris's guy at the NEC & his car production line?.
Well it was designed so that all vehicles would go down them, in fact they were always mixed.
Convoys, pilots all derivatives, tippers, busses, pannel vans,whatever.
I can only think he was confusing the assembly line (track) with the narrower track of the pilot
which was good for narrow streets &country lanes?...
I think your'e right Matt, it was a no frills vehicle but long lasting,&lots off options, the basic style never changed. The chassis pretty much the same, but with short /standerd &long wheelbase built in lots of carring capacitys & fitted up how you wantsd it,
Which the big boys couldn't be asked to do at the time...

Just shows , they got something right.....
Gil

Sorry that seems to have posted twice..
Merry Christmas Guy's & Gal's & Happy 2015 to us all .....
Gil...

Just had a quick look on AR online at Sherpa development found this paragraph sums it up so copy and pasted it here
The answer that he soon formulated was: JU under frame and axles; J4 side panels and roof; Marina 1.8 petrol engine plus an uprated 1.8-litre version of the old 1.5-itre B-series diesel; Austin 3-Litre version of the C-series gearbox (ie: direct change, no remote shift), with an overdrive option; Marina heater unit; Mini exterior door handles; Austin 2200 steering wheel; instrument nacelle from Marina van; and so on… In fact, wherever existing parts could be used, they were, and no existing option was overlooked. Stir into the pot whatever new body pressings were needed to knit it all together, and voila! – the CV306 was born.
Dave

Morris not Austin, I wasn't far off

Why I didn't just go and check the AR Online article I don't know, I read it when I was researching them before I bought the thing (yes, it was a considered purchase- although I really wanted a Prima or early XUD engine square fronted Freight Rover 200 instead of a Pilot, but finding a decent Pilot proved hard enough so I gave up in the end and bought the first one I saw that still had some metal in the lower 6" of the bodywork...).

MarinaCoupe wrote:When I was on the NEC stand in November, someone (can't remember who) told me that the Sherpa/Pilot/200 series was the width that it is because it would fit down the car production line, so they could reuse a car track.


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My apologies Chris,
Having now read the "A R " write up on the sherpa, it seems your guy at the NEC stand was correct. It was originally designed to go down a car track.
There was a lot of land sold in order to enable the management buy out, also buildings demolished so not to pay rates on them, everything was on a shoe string.
Maybe it was all moved to one track , which was where I saw them.
The following year... Well thats something ive learned today.
Gil.