Fast Marina Magazine

Sorry lead you slightly astray on Vac advance numbers. Top row is VAC advance starts at 11inc hg and finishes at 12 inc hg, which means it gives 28 deg start and 47deg finish. My data on 25D/4 says vac starts at 4inc hg and finishes at 12 inc hg.
Dave

The tappets weren't very far out. Six were a bit loose, two a little tight. Mostly near the back, though I didn't specifically make note of which valves at the time. Nor did I gauge each tappet as I found it, I simply kept my feelers on 13 thou and made the adjustments. In my view, a very tiny amount of adjustment brought each one into the 'just nipping but still sliding' range.

As for connecting the vac gauge to the manifold, its another Gunson product I bought about ten years ago for the Cortina MkV I had. There is an adapter in the pack for narrower plug threads I think, but I'll have to see if it will fit to the manifold. I might have to take the brake servo hose off, and maybe its threaded boss. I think on my gauge the standard size spark plug thread adapter is swaged onto the hose.

So you think the position of the distributor vac hose take-off looks a bit wrong then?

No that looks original to me. Cant you just push the vac gauge hose onto the manifold where the vac advance pipe normally goes
Dave

This is what I got....





Gunson's stuff used to seem like miracle tools at one time, but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that its just cheap mass market stuff to put into accessory shops. The gauge seems well made in this case, but is probably of limited scope. Mind you, if I only use a compression gauge once every ten years, it hardly justifies buying expensive garage equipment.

That looks fine as a compression tester Gunson stuff seems ok for the DIY market normally did what it said on the tin don't think it would last long in the Garage environment though.
Dave

Perhaps I can use a combination of short lengths of hose pipe and fuel pipe to get it to push on the tapping for the vacuum hose.

Can you photograph scale on gauge better it looks like a compression tester to me not a vacuum gauge
Dave

Wild card.

I had a Mk3 auto with a transmission problem. It would hardly move regardless of how much throttle you used.
It also had a habit of spewing some auto fluid out of the overflow pipe.
Turned out that the pickup filter was blocked - so the auto simply could not suck fluid from the pan.

Have you checked the level of your auto fluid?
Replacing the pickup filter and pan gasket used to be a normal maintenance item.
These days people seem to assume that autos are "sealed for life" and do not maintain them.
If you drive the car by manually changing gears - and thus allow engine revs to rise to about 3000RPM in each gear - how does it go then?

There is no problem at all with manually controlling gearchanges on your auto - and it can show up some odd behaviours..

Somewhere in the history folder, there's an entry saying it had a fluid change about six months before I bought the car. I'm not looking at the folder now, but from memory, I think it was done by a garage. Probably the same garage that did several jobs on the car before I got it, including 'fixing a coolant leak'. (Radweld).

So, Mr. Rowley or whatever his name is, the previous owner, had also left, among his virtually unreadable hand written notes slotted into pages and pages in the Haynes manual he left me, something about an automatic transmission fluid leak. The garage apparently looked at it. Said the transmission was overfilled, drained some fluid out, and the leak was apparently gone. The source of the leak was deemed to be the rear seal.

So far so good, you might think. At the auction, I could not (or did not ask) to run the car as it was in an enclosed space, and I thought running the cars wasn't an option. I didn't see any other auction cars running. Later on I was told otherwise but no matter, running the car at rest would have told me little about any defects I've found later. I dipped the oil, dipped the transmission fluid, nice clean and pink, and obviously at rest, way up the dip stick.

So when I got to start using the car a little, the drip tray that used to stand under my Wolseley Hornet, with white pads on, to catch the black oil that dropped, started to acquire pink patches and under the fuel pump, little yellow patches. The yellow patches were petrol dropped at rest, after a run. Our Mr. Rowley had a diagram on a bit of paper of an aftermarket in-line fuel filter with air bubbles in it, that same filter had been removed when I got the car, the fuel pipes joined together with a union, and the filter (which I've not really looked at) is in a box of bits along with the old transmission inhibitor switch, which I have little doubt was removed and replaced because of my car's previously documented reluctance to turn over on the key, and an 'eBay' inhibitor switch is now on the car (history folder evidence) plus the previously documented 'hot wire' button under the dash, used to turn the engine over when the ignition key won't. The button is still there, not attended to yet, except now it is running it's through a 20 amp fuse so the car at least shouldn't catch fire. Near-boiling radiators and now apparently un-timeable timing have pushed their way up my priority list, past that now relatively safely fused starter button. The point of this last few lines regarding the fuel filter with bubbles in, is that I think the bubbles were down to the leaky SU fuel pump, now replaced by me with a (admittedly aftermarket) new one. I don't know how long it would have taken me to find the leak if I hadn't got my spill pads under the car, but I found it and did something about it. Instead of drawing little diagrams of fuel filters with bubbles in.

So, the pink stuff under the car. (Yes Kilroy - all you asked was 'had I checked the level?' You didn't ask me for a lecture! ) Down on my hands and knees, it is plainly obvious there is an ATF leak. Plainly obvious. Firstly, it seems to be coming from the hexagon union where the dipstick tube fastens to the side of the sump pan. Probably a taper seating, I would guess. I've tried putting a spanner on the nut and pulling (admittedly while lying by the sill - I've not been right underneath) but I couldn't budge it. I don't want to go mad and strip the alloy threads. Secondly, it is also PROBABLY leaking from the what-looks-like-rubber sump gasket, although it COULD just be fluid from the leaky union that's been blown about. Is there a leak from the tail shaft seal? Mmm - not sure. Again, I've not been right under yet. About two months into ownership, with several little drives under my belt, I decided I needed to check the ATF level, engine running, and, despite no mention in the Haynes manual that I could find, nor the car's own owner's manual, I recalled from somewhere that with my Mk1 I ran the selector up and down the quadrant in all the positions twice, slowly, to make sure fluid was in all the galleries. The level was on minimum. The car came with a full bottle of Comma mineral transmission oil, and I used half of it to bring the level up to normal. That's about a pint. So it either loses a lot, or that garage drained a pint out to 'cure' the leak. I admit that since my top up I've not re-checked the level, but then I've not been far, and until the car performs better (and with the summer season drawing to a close) I'm unlikely to.

I'm not the cleverest chap on the planet but I do get annoyed when I see such blatant oversights or bodgery taking place on motors I buy. Draining fluid out? Leak cured? I assume Mr. Rowley was either incapable or unwilling to do a lot himself, and the impression I get is the garage he took the Marina to, fobbed him off or had instructions to do things on the cheap. I've thrown his notes away. They were useless to me.

Thinking about it, I do think there were some notes about the distributor, suggesting past trouble. However, I doubt the thrown away notes would be any help, as Mr. Rowley seemed to think the car had a 25D distributor, when it is in fact a 45D.

The extra pint of fluid in the transmission made no difference to how the car drove. The jury is still out as to whether it is leaking any more.

There are two marks on a auto transmission dipstick. When the fluid is cold you set it to low mark, with the engine running after running through the gears from Park to Park. The high mark is for the fluid level when the transmission oil is hot. Ie the car has been driven about 10 miles, the level is checked in the same manner from park to park. Dextron oil expands a lot as it gets hot so a car overfilled when cold ie to the high mark, it is likely to push oil out of the breathers and the dipstick tube making the transmission, appear to have a bad oil leak. The probable reason the oil level was lowered in the first place.
Dave

Yes, I know there are high and low marks, or rather a hot and cold scale. I've only ever checked my automatic cars when hot, I've never gone by the cold markings. I figure if a car is running, its warming up. If its warming up, it ain't cold! If the car's been run and is hot, there is no argument! Thinking about it after I wrote my post, I reckon actually my fluid level on the dipstick with my Marina engine hot and running was only registering on one of the cold scales, can't remember if it was high end or low end. Hopefully high. That's why it took a pint. I can't ever remember putting that much in my Marina Mk1. The last automatic car I owned was a 1999 Mercedes C200 that I had for nearly 10 years, until 2013. That was meant to have a 'sealed for life' transmission. I broke the seal on the dip stick early on and periodically checked my transmission fluid level. (Oh, and I had to buy a 'special tool' dip stick from my MB dealership. It was about four feet long and apparently served for all automatic MB vehicles, including vans. I kept it in the original bag in the shed!) That car developed a very slight weep from one of the taper seat unions at the oil cooler. I never could completely cure it. I think I dared once to try PTFE tape carefully applied to the taper seating, assembled the joint, then chickened out in case any PTFE got into the pipework and galleries, disassembled the joint, cleaned it again and re-assembled dry and tried to tighten it REALLY, REALLY tight without stripping the threads. No sign of a leak under test but at the next engine oil change, sump guard off, still a weep from the oil cooler union. I lived with it. I cannot remember exactly how many cc's it took but from, say, half way between high and low mark on that dip stick, but it took a very small amount of MB transmission fluid to bring it up to the higher mark on that car. There's a bit of a horror story about taking it for a sensible fluid change at 110,000 miles to a local auto transmission specialist, and the job turned into something rather more expensive....but I really don't want to go over that!

A hot temperature gauge Does Not!! mean the transmission fluid is up to temperature!! It is doing no work until the car is driven. You will notice on your Mercedes Dipstick it has several temperature reading, all the same level but at differing temperatures. There is no such thing as sealed for life automatic gearboxes. Just lifetime transmission fluid. In fact your Mercedes ran on Dextron III fluid and part of the service schedule was to change the transmission oil and filter at 36000 miles and a new tamper proof seal for the dipstick tube. This seal was supplied as part of the kit! Modern thinking is to have a level plug on the transmission for the fluid to run out at a specific temperature( no dipstick of tube is fitted now), as measured through the transmission temperature sensor. Accessed through the cars 16pin diagnostic port. This has been done to stop overfilling of the transmission. I have found that changing the lifetime oil and filter of modern transmissions at around 100 000 miles greatly improves the shift quality and extends the life of the transmission. A blocked transmission filter will result in a loud squealing noise as the pump trys to suck the fluid through the blocked mesh and gives the same result as low fluid level the transmission slips like la clutch slipping on a Manual car and will result in the clutches and brake bands burning out turning the fluid and burnt brown colour and will also smells burnt !!!
Dave

The auto pan gasket is (should be..) cork, and sometimes you will find that it has softened up considerably in use - allowing a retighten of all the bolts that retain the pan.
They are quite small bolts and should thus be tightened moderately.

The gasket and replaceable filter are quite cheap and easy to replace should you be doing a fluid change.

As you are beginning to discover - what people have paid for to be done in the past, often bears little resemblance to what actually has been done.

Kilroy wrote:
As you are beginning to discover - what people have paid for to be done in the past, often bears little resemblance to what actually has been done.

So true....mind you, I have been driving cars (from a learner) since February 1979, so I have amassed quite a bit of experience already!

david painter wrote:A hot temperature gauge Does Not!! mean the transmission fluid is up to temperature!! It is doing no work until the car is driven. You will notice on your Mercedes Dipstick it has several temperature reading, all the same level but at differing temperatures. There is no such thing as sealed for life automatic gearboxes. Just lifetime transmission fluid. In fact your Mercedes ran on Dextron III fluid and part of the service schedule was to change the transmission oil and filter at 36000 miles and a new tamper proof seal for the dipstick tube. This seal was supplied as part of the kit! Modern thinking is to have a level plug on the transmission for the fluid to run out at a specific temperature( no dipstick of tube is fitted now), as measured through the transmission temperature sensor. Accessed through the cars 16pin diagnostic port. This has been done to stop overfilling of the transmission. I have found that changing the lifetime oil and filter of modern transmissions at around 100 000 miles greatly improves the shift quality and extends the life of the transmission. A blocked transmission filter will result in a loud squealing noise as the pump trys to suck the fluid through the blocked mesh and gives the same result as low fluid level the transmission slips like la clutch slipping on a Manual car and will result in the clutches and brake bands burning out turning the fluid and burnt brown colour and will also smells burnt !!!
Dave

David...if you are referring to my Marina, I DID NOT test the transmission fluid level going by an over-reading temperature gauge on an engine with a choked up radiator...I had driven it for roughly ten miles. That is why I didn't bother to do a 'hot' dip of the transmission fluid until many weeks after the car had been in my possession. I waited until I'd taken it far enough.

The Mercedes did not have a maintenance schedule for changing transmission fluid at 36,000 miles. Not in the literature that came with the car, anyway. Coolant, yes. Brake fluid, yes. All fell outside the scope of the normal service schedule and were at extra cost. Transmission fluid, no. Expected the last the life of the car. Perhaps the early W202s with the four speed automatic had a 36,000 mile service schedule, mine was a facelifted W202 with the five speed electronic gearbox. Called the 722.6 transmission, I believe. When I bought the car, and as a conscientious owner I wanted to check the level of my ATF, technicians at Mertrux, the Derby dealer, told me there was no dip stick with the car because people had been topping up earlier versions with a dip stick and overfilling, resulting in blown seals. I know about burnt, smelly, brown or black ATF from reading masses of 'used buy' features in Practical Classics for many years. I'm not a motor mechanic and have a degree of awe towards carburettors but I have tools and a modicum of mechanical ability because since 1978 I've been an apprenctice fitter/mechanical fitter/multi-skilled engineer/line technician/lean technician and God knows whatever other half-arsed title they gave us in my last year at Boots Contract Manufacturing up to 2011, until I gave it up to drive Class 2 lorries for living. So in general I don't break things and I don't blow things up and I'm reasonably careful and accurate with what I do. It's just this sodding Morris Marina I bought in April for pleasure and cruising around in won't run properly and it's not responding to the standard stuff I'm used to doing to cars in the past. Most likely because its forty years old and not seven or eight years old like many of the cars I've bought were back in the day.

Regarding my facelifted W202 again, for a short time I bought Mercedes Enthusiast magazine and I bought one issue because it featured my car in a 'buy used' article. It talked about the two kinds of auto box the car had been fitted with, and their 'expert' said the boxes were said to be filled for life but it was rubbish. Which is common sense. His recommendation was to do a fluid change at about 70000 miles. Mine was already well past that by then, still working perfectly, but on the strength of that article and my own mechanical sympathies I picked a transmission specialist to work on my car. As I said earlier, the job turned into a bigger one, not because of lack of fluid being changed, but because of a supposed design weakness (so I was told) in the 5 speed electronic box where a needle bearing thrust race eats into an aluminium gear, the usual result (so I was led to believe) being a thrust race shedding its needle rollers which then locks up and scraps the transmission. Mine had been caught in the nick of time, I was told. I was invited to inspect the evidence and given the choice of just having it refilled with ATF and get rid of the car, or given a price for the job. I chose to keep the car. The job was done adequately but the price kept going up and the job took ten days when it should have taken five. In the end I was just glad to get my car back. They appeared to be a reputable transmission specialist (in the Meadow Lane area of Nottingham) but if my Marina needs any specialist transmission work, I don't want to take it to them.

While on the subject of service schedules, do you know my Ford diesel powered Volvo C30 Drive e does not have a replacement schedule for brake fluid or coolant? There's nothing in the car's literature at all. I used to use main dealers for servicing. I asked about the fluids. We just test it, they said, and if the brake fluid and coolant comes up to scratch, we leave it in. I now use an independent Volvo specialist (I used to service the Mercedes but I've no interest in doing the Volvo - they hide the engine under plastic and I can't get a manual for it - unless I bought a Ford Focus manual). The Volvo specialist also only tests the fluids at service time. This goes against everything I've ever been told. However....in the past, I've had work done on brakes, fluid changed, got cars back with air in the brakes....had arguments with the garage....once I had vapour lock when braking from speed in a car that had recently had brake work....and as far as coolant is concerned, I once had a Fiat Punto that was an absolute sod for getting air locks out of, and I'd have to keep topping it up for weeks. I've heard that the antifreeze doesn't degrade with age, but the corrosion inhibitors do. So why don't Volvo schedule coolant changes? I don't know. But my information is, they don't. At the moment, my Volvo is working perfectly and has a full service history. At the moment, that's all I'm bothered about.
Mick