Fast Marina Magazine

MarinaCoupe wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:28 am I'll bet that at some time the wrong battery was fitted with different terminal posts so they chopped the old connectors off and substituted some that fitted.

Could be - though the black lead is perfectly intact, though that bolts off.

Kilroy wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:38 am Here is my thought about the spare terminal on the starter.
Later models featured a 6 volt ignition coil with a '6 volt' ballast resistor so that it could happily be attached to a 12 volt car.

Well that's interesting Kilroy. The principle of the ballast resistor has always been one of those things that seems a little bit like magic to me. The only car I've owned that I know for sure was fitted with one was the Vauxhall HB Viva I had for a while at the start of my new millennium period of owning classics, and that car was trouble, and fitting a new ballast resistor was one of the things I went through to try to get it to start and run. I'm a bit too whacked after work to go ferreting around in the garage to have a look right now, but I'd say my Marina has got a 12v coil, because there's nothing like a resistor fastened to it or near it. My coil has a gold anodised finish, so I don't know if it's original or not. I've not looked hard but I don't recall seeing a makers label on it.

Some Cars don't have a ballast resistor,but still have a low voltage coil. They have a Resistive wire in the loom(Austin Metro for example). The only way know for sure is to measure the voltage, at the + side of coil with engine running and + side of coil when cranking. If greater when cranking some sort of ballast resistor is fitted. The reason spade connectors are a different size is to stop them being mixed up easily when starter motor is fitted.
Dave

You tweaked my curiosity enough for me to go and look now I've recovered a bit from my day at work. It IS a Lucas coil. The label is on the clamp, but the paper is very eroded and I can't make a lot out on it. I can read Luc..... Sport and then I think the letters DLB 10. Stamped on the end of the can are the letters BYS and then below SP 12, and then some smaller numbers I can't read. I'm guessing there's a good chance this is the original coil.

You more than likely have a number missing there. A Gold coil is usually Lucas sports coil, DLB105 is 12volt, DLB110 is for use with a 1.6 Ohm Ballast Resistor and has a primary winding resistance of 1.5Ohms.
Dave

Yes. The 10 is clear enough but that then runs into where the surface of the paper has gone. Since the alternative coil you suggested starts 'DLB 11...' it points to my coil being a 105.

Mick,
As David & Kilroy stated, there is a resistor wire used in some harnesses allowing a low voltage ballast coil to be used. But according to all the wiring diagrams ive seen this didn't start till the mk3 & ltal so wont include your mk2 auto (or mine). They will also have the later starter solenoid with the extra small terminal which would connect to the said resistorr wire.
I think you said you have the wrong starter motor fitted which must be a later mk3 /Ital one.
This won't affeçt Your 12 volt system which will run perfectly well with out it.
Gil.

Hi Gil

Long time no speak mate.

Morning Chris,
Yeah, still busy with the new place lots of diy, but still following "fast marina"but not every day.
So im still around, im booked up for the national (same place as you &Richard ) with Gabby, who went straight through the MOT , with just the a bit of air in the tyres., so ready to go.
Catch up with everyone then.
Gil...

Hi Gil. Yes, funny thing with that starter. At least as regards aftermarket literature for diy use. Two books came with my car, a Haynes manual for 1.8s only, with a supplementary section at the back for Mk2s, and a Marina Autobooks no. 850, which covers everything including 1.3s, up to the Marina 2, 1971-78. Barry saying my car should have a bigger starter goes along with the question asked by the guy I gave it to for a refurb, in that he said "It's for a 1.3 isn't it?" The Autobooks Technical Data section states, for starter motor types, 1.3 Standard: Lucas M418G, 1.3 Cold Climates: Lucas M35J pre-engaged (mine), 1.8 Standard and also 1.8 Cold Climates: Lucas 2M100. However, in the 1.8-exclusive Haynes manual, the early part of the book for Mk1s lists the starter motor options as the M418G and 2M100, but turn to the supplemental section in chapter 13 for Mk2 ammendments and the starter motor type is listed as the M35J! I cannot find any written reference to particular starters for automatics. Of course non of this addresses the fact that 'my' starter, according to the history folder, was removed almost five years ago, but only 2000 miles ago, recondtioned and refitted, yet J Whyatt who did it locally this time around said the armature windings were knackered where the brushes run, and they had never been touched.

Well Mick, you have a reconditioned starter with warranty that works ,job done.
You don't need to worry about about its past history, move on to the next job, i'm sure you have lots more to do.
To get mobile,
Gil...

Correct Gil. This weekend the least I hope to achieve is finishing that relay mod to the starting circuit - and hopefully a bit more than that too.

Well this is a turn-up for the books (I think that's the expression). In the three hours I'm going to get to work on my car this weekend, I've successfully completed the starter circuit mod (more on that later) and then decided to look at the carbs. I already knew they'd come back to me with the wrong float chamber lids on the wrong carb, and the ferrule for the accelerator cable was also fitted to the wrong carb body. Having drifted that out to fit to the right (rearmost) carb, and swapped over the float chamber lids, in the process discovering one wasn't tight, there are no spring washers fitted and there was crud in the sludge trap at the bottom of each float chamber, it's now become apparent these ARE NOT my carburettor bodies. The most obvious evidence being a vacuum pipe take off drilled into the 'front' carb, when my take-off is already on the manifold, and each of these carbs has a little number stamped into the gasket face where the air filter fits. I photographed my carbs as I was removing them, just to be sure I got everything back right - and there were no numbers stamped on the gasket faces.

Okay, the good news first, updated with pictures. Kilroy's mod to the starting circuit for Marina automatics with the 'click' problem when you turn the key, and no starter motor turning, works a treat. I can make good, sound electrical connections and do wiring neatly, but electricity flow isn't my strong point, and I would never have come up with this solution myself. Neither would the person who hot-wired a starter button from the battery to the starter solenoid on my car, it seems. Kilroy's instructions are on one of my earlier threads but if anyone wants a reminder, it goes like this.

Use a 30 amp 4 pin relay, and cut the white and red wire on the inner-wing side of the harness, right where it goes into the plastic connector block on the harness leading to the starter solenoid, the block which on my car was hanging down between the oil filter and the horn. A spade connector was crimped to the end of the white and red wire, and it was plugged into one side of the relay's coil, and the other side of the relay's coil went to earth. In my pictures this is the blue wire, with a ring connector trapped under the relay mounting screw. Then, on the 'switched' side of the relay (the remaining two pins), one pin is connected to what should be, by rights, the remaining white and red wire of the original car harness, to the big 35 amp terminal on the starter motor solenoid, but in my photos its a plain red wire cos I couldn't get any white and red. A brown wire goes from the other switched pin of the relay to the same post on the starter solenoid as the big fat live cable from the battery, though in my case cos there's an original brown, and green/brown cable piggy-backed onto a metal plate on that very terminal post, I used a ring connector to fasten my brown wire to that instead. It's the same difference. Bearing in mind I've got no carbs fitted and open inlet ports on my engine, I only flicked the starter a few times to test the mod out, but the engine turned willingly with no hesitation each time. Brilliant mod. Thanks Kilroy.

P.S. most of the wire I used was 27 amp to be on the safe side, with just the blue earth wire being 17 amp, as again, its all I could get, but I bought new stuff because the begged, stolen or borrowed scraps I had kicking around were not up to the job.

Now the not-so-good news. The carbs.
Okay, so worse things happen at sea, but seeing as I was supposed to be getting my 'original' 27,000 mile carbs rebuilt, it comes as a bit of a blow to discover when preparing to fit, that I've got different carb bodies to those I supplied, and one is drilled out for a vacuum pipe where I don't need it. I scraped the bottom of the float chambers and got rusty crud out, and I suspect these aren't my originals either as I'd already performed a similar task in-situ when I got the car. Yes they have been bead-blasted, but it didn't reach into the float chamber properly. These carbs HAVE been prepared for me, I haven't come away with someone else's, as the kickdown linkage is there on the rearmost carb, but I assume by now, someone else has my carb bodies for their car. I can live with this provided they've been built right (though I was told 27,000 mile carbs can be returned to new, 100,000 mile carbs to about 25,000 miles....so how far have these been?) but what to do about the unwanted vac take off? I've considered - trying to solder over the hole, as I've got a big soldering iron, or, cutting the taper off the pipe, crimping the pipe flat and THEN soldering it - though I'm a bit concerned that any rubber or plastic seals in the carbs would be damaged by heat transfer. Or, use some sort of filler, but I don't know what would resist heat and vibration, or just push a piece of vac-pipe over the stub and try to seal that by doubling it over and clipping it. Hardly concours stuff though. The photo of the inlet ports show the numbers stamped into these castings that weren't present on my original carb bodies.