And I am sure The Exorcist is aware of any problems that may arise, don't let the fact he is a dirty moggy driver make you question his knowledge!
Bugger This.. I'm Going FORD!
Moderators: ClaytonSpeed, balmy
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~Sam~
Hey Ben if you let me drive it once it's finished I will agree it is a good idea, if you don't let me drive it I am going to side with the bitter people and say you're a pleb! Oh wait I say that anyways...
And I am sure The Exorcist is aware of any problems that may arise, don't let the fact he is a dirty moggy driver make you question his knowledge!
And I am sure The Exorcist is aware of any problems that may arise, don't let the fact he is a dirty moggy driver make you question his knowledge!
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Pont.skins
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Well done to Paul and Brian for exposing this dreamer Ben Clayton for what he really is.Him and his mates clearly don't have a clue.Honestly,the way that young upstart struts about this forum you'd think he set it up and was instrumental in its' daily well being.Some people,eh :roll: .
Anway lads,you've clearly got him on the ropes.Why don't you finish him off by posting some examples of your superior engineering skills? That'll take the wind out his sails.I reckon the ref'll stop the fight early.........SILENCE...............Where you going boys?..............What's that,your supper's ready?.........Later?..............Bath and an early night!!....Oh well,perhaps not then :?
Anway lads,you've clearly got him on the ropes.Why don't you finish him off by posting some examples of your superior engineering skills? That'll take the wind out his sails.I reckon the ref'll stop the fight early.........SILENCE...............Where you going boys?..............What's that,your supper's ready?.........Later?..............Bath and an early night!!....Oh well,perhaps not then :?
Pont.Skins
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The General
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Pont.skins
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The General
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Uncle Frank
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The Exorcist
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Paul,
Well the main weak spots would be the rear spring hangers, inner sills to floors where the damp gets under the sealant, rear heal board and inner box section. Front chassis legs can split on later cars but early ones are better. Not really hard to repair places.I do actually have a MK1 Marina Coupe myself so am well aquainted with the body type,and its short comings
We are professional restorers and modifiers of classic cars and as such accept the responsibilities that go with this, like checking the integrity of the cars structure and its suitability to any upgrading. Our kits alway include strengthening work if the loadings from 'new' parts increase the existing parameters.
Ben's car presented no issues with the structure, as it is in excellent condition. The power increase given by the Zetec conversion will have no ill effects on this car. Ben has plans for further upgrades to the front and rear suspension that will incorporate yet more strengthening in vital areas.
Sam
cheeky so and so, I'm not dirty
Well the main weak spots would be the rear spring hangers, inner sills to floors where the damp gets under the sealant, rear heal board and inner box section. Front chassis legs can split on later cars but early ones are better. Not really hard to repair places.I do actually have a MK1 Marina Coupe myself so am well aquainted with the body type,and its short comings
We are professional restorers and modifiers of classic cars and as such accept the responsibilities that go with this, like checking the integrity of the cars structure and its suitability to any upgrading. Our kits alway include strengthening work if the loadings from 'new' parts increase the existing parameters.
Ben's car presented no issues with the structure, as it is in excellent condition. The power increase given by the Zetec conversion will have no ill effects on this car. Ben has plans for further upgrades to the front and rear suspension that will incorporate yet more strengthening in vital areas.
Sam
cheeky so and so, I'm not dirty -
Uncle Frank
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On a serious note regarding Pauls points, although some may be valid i feel after 20 years of repairing and restoring Marinas my own opinion is worthy of a listen....the Marina`s basic structure is a very solid one, they proved their worth on the Rally stage, although it was short lived thanks to Bl`s love of all things Triumph :roll: , the ST cars were modified of course but most of the mods were to the suspension, apart from the need to add protection from the rough terrain encountered on a rally stage.
The main shell stayed the same ,as regards to the shell not taking the power of the Zetec engine, well the special tuning boys stuck a ruddy great Rover V8 in a coupe for the East African Safari with little or no mods to the actual structure of the car!, so i think if it was good enough for the company that built the car to modify it to that extreme, then it should be able to cope with a little Ford engine!
Finally before i bore you all to death with a load of technical points about loads and stresses, you may be interested to know that a friend of mine who is now an Insurance Engineer/ Assessor used to work at the T.R.R.L. Laboratories, where in the seventies and 80`s he would regularly see cars smashed into walls, some of which were Marinas, he told me on many occasions that if he was ever in a crash in the 70`s he would rather be in a Marina than a lot of the other cars he saw at that time, he said the integral strength of the Marinas Bodyshell was outstanding compared to most of the opposition of the day, including the Escort and Cortina, and believe it or not one of the most dangerous cars to have an accident in was a Volvo 121!! (apparently the steering column would go straight into your chest as it was not collapsible!!), i`m sure with the modifications that Ben is having carried out the car will be as safe as it can be.
The main shell stayed the same ,as regards to the shell not taking the power of the Zetec engine, well the special tuning boys stuck a ruddy great Rover V8 in a coupe for the East African Safari with little or no mods to the actual structure of the car!, so i think if it was good enough for the company that built the car to modify it to that extreme, then it should be able to cope with a little Ford engine!
Finally before i bore you all to death with a load of technical points about loads and stresses, you may be interested to know that a friend of mine who is now an Insurance Engineer/ Assessor used to work at the T.R.R.L. Laboratories, where in the seventies and 80`s he would regularly see cars smashed into walls, some of which were Marinas, he told me on many occasions that if he was ever in a crash in the 70`s he would rather be in a Marina than a lot of the other cars he saw at that time, he said the integral strength of the Marinas Bodyshell was outstanding compared to most of the opposition of the day, including the Escort and Cortina, and believe it or not one of the most dangerous cars to have an accident in was a Volvo 121!! (apparently the steering column would go straight into your chest as it was not collapsible!!), i`m sure with the modifications that Ben is having carried out the car will be as safe as it can be.
Ive not been on here long and have not meet any of you lot except Crashbang who works for the same company I do.
Ive been in touch by PM to a few members and have been impressed by the friendly and helpfull responce I have received.
I may be wrong here but is this constant slagging off of a members car the normal sport around here??
For the life of me and can not understand what the problem is with someone modifying his own car!! Will someone please explain this to me.
If its a personal problem between two people then it doesnt belong on this forum,sought it out face to face and spare us the bollocks.
My personal thoughts,for what its worth, is that modified cars of this nature are all part of the marinas future,more people are going to do it.
So whats going to happen then? The forum going to piss them off out of it as well because they are afraid of the different way of thinking they dont understand/wont understand....
I beleive there is room for all types of marinas/marina owners,which ever direction they may be thinking.
So lets enjoy what we have and help each other to accomplish our projects with a positive helping hand.
Ive been in touch by PM to a few members and have been impressed by the friendly and helpfull responce I have received.
I may be wrong here but is this constant slagging off of a members car the normal sport around here??
For the life of me and can not understand what the problem is with someone modifying his own car!! Will someone please explain this to me.
If its a personal problem between two people then it doesnt belong on this forum,sought it out face to face and spare us the bollocks.
My personal thoughts,for what its worth, is that modified cars of this nature are all part of the marinas future,more people are going to do it.
So whats going to happen then? The forum going to piss them off out of it as well because they are afraid of the different way of thinking they dont understand/wont understand....
I beleive there is room for all types of marinas/marina owners,which ever direction they may be thinking.
So lets enjoy what we have and help each other to accomplish our projects with a positive helping hand.
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JubileeNut
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Yep sounds good to me!!
Just to add to this, I have crashed a marina big time 20 years ago and yes it was safe (enough) as I walked away from it with a cut! Plus it also had a big hole in the roof to start with which removed strength from the shell so if that was not there I may have escaped the cut as well!
If you want to see the result see post in - Morris Marina Section under V6 pop and Marina!!
As long as you wear a seat belt you should be fine, I could still open the doors after hitting a 7.5 tonne truck head on, but the driver of the truck had to be cut out!
Paul.
Just to add to this, I have crashed a marina big time 20 years ago and yes it was safe (enough) as I walked away from it with a cut! Plus it also had a big hole in the roof to start with which removed strength from the shell so if that was not there I may have escaped the cut as well!
If you want to see the result see post in - Morris Marina Section under V6 pop and Marina!!
As long as you wear a seat belt you should be fine, I could still open the doors after hitting a 7.5 tonne truck head on, but the driver of the truck had to be cut out!
Paul.
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Pont.skins
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v6POP Wrote :-I beleive there is room for all types of marinas/marina owners,which ever direction they may be thinking.
So lets enjoy what we have and help each other to accomplish our projects with a positive helping hand.
What a sound sentiment .There are plenty of people slagging our cars off as it is.
So lets enjoy what we have and help each other to accomplish our projects with a positive helping hand.
What a sound sentiment
.There are plenty of people slagging our cars off as it is.Pont.Skins
The Marina does lack a seperate front subframe as found on the RWD Escort and Capri but does this really make a big difference? From a NVH point of view yes, but from a strength point of view I think that it makes little difference. The works Escorts did use modified world cup cross members as well as modified engine mounts, but I'm sure with a bit of research and some careful examination there are plenty of modern mounts which can be used with little fuss.
On the subject of the rear axle, I hope the standard unit can take around 120hp, as that is what I'm planning on having at the rear of my TC when it's finished. Caterham should know more than most, but looking at the problems which plagued the 120bhp A series engined S/T Marinas it was the gearbox which was the real weak link in the chain.
As for a high performance Marina, it looks like Ben is setting the bar here guys. I must admit I'm playing it safe, sticking to tried and tested means and while I personally would have used a K series I think it's about time someone tried to drag the cars reputation from poorly handling and slow shopping cart to a truely affordable (no pun intended...) alternative to the overpriced and predictable Escort/Dolomite scene.
If Bens TC helps to inspire and save a single Marina from destruction that's surely a good thing? After all 760 cars can only be spread so thinly around 50 or so hardcore owners.
The Marina/Ital needs to attract a new generation of people willing to save one of these and restore/run/tune it long term, I know TC's are rare enough but what Ben has done is not irreversable, a week with Frank should put it all back to how it started. Put it this way, it is easier to run a modified Escort than a standard one, such is the plathora of replacement tuning parts avaliable for it. If Bens TC helps to pave the way for a remanufacture or source of good replacement parts then why stand in his way.
On the subject of the rear axle, I hope the standard unit can take around 120hp, as that is what I'm planning on having at the rear of my TC when it's finished. Caterham should know more than most, but looking at the problems which plagued the 120bhp A series engined S/T Marinas it was the gearbox which was the real weak link in the chain.
As for a high performance Marina, it looks like Ben is setting the bar here guys. I must admit I'm playing it safe, sticking to tried and tested means and while I personally would have used a K series I think it's about time someone tried to drag the cars reputation from poorly handling and slow shopping cart to a truely affordable (no pun intended...) alternative to the overpriced and predictable Escort/Dolomite scene.
If Bens TC helps to inspire and save a single Marina from destruction that's surely a good thing? After all 760 cars can only be spread so thinly around 50 or so hardcore owners.
The Marina/Ital needs to attract a new generation of people willing to save one of these and restore/run/tune it long term, I know TC's are rare enough but what Ben has done is not irreversable, a week with Frank should put it all back to how it started. Put it this way, it is easier to run a modified Escort than a standard one, such is the plathora of replacement tuning parts avaliable for it. If Bens TC helps to pave the way for a remanufacture or source of good replacement parts then why stand in his way.
I don't think the structural integrity of the Marina can be doubted; it was the first BMC/BL car designed with crumple zones and the torsional stiffness of the shell was only outclassed by the Landcrab. They are a very strong structure - I have been in two smashes with Marinas (first wrote off a Fiat 132, head-on, and the Marina was still driveable; second a side impact that wiped out an MG Midget but didn't even move the B-post) and I have witnessed the aftermath of two collosal crashes, one destroying a VOLVO 340 where the Marina still moved, the second a skid through a stand of trees, drystone wall, three rolls in a field and all doors were openable and they drove it to the gateway of the field. All four occupants walked away.
As long as the shell isn't riddled with rust the shell should handle the power without too much aggro, but if it doesn't, then further development work will cure it. I take my hat off to Ben for having a go at this; it's a damned shame this wasn'y done years ago instead of all those blinkered people trying to resurrect Escorts left, right and centre. If it leads to more Marinas being saved, I have no worries about that.
Does modifying it make my GT a kit? Ital front suspension, Dolomite 1850HL overdrive box, bespoke prop and MGB axle?
As long as the shell isn't riddled with rust the shell should handle the power without too much aggro, but if it doesn't, then further development work will cure it. I take my hat off to Ben for having a go at this; it's a damned shame this wasn'y done years ago instead of all those blinkered people trying to resurrect Escorts left, right and centre. If it leads to more Marinas being saved, I have no worries about that.
Does modifying it make my GT a kit? Ital front suspension, Dolomite 1850HL overdrive box, bespoke prop and MGB axle?
The classic car movement needs Jeremy Clarkson like Jenson Button needs a towhitch and a Sprite Musketeer....
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marinabrian
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No B.L. Bastardry is fineMarinanut wrote:I don't think the structural integrity of the Marina can be doubted; it was the first BMC/BL car designed with crumple zones and the torsional stiffness of the shell was only outclassed by the Landcrab. They are a very strong structure - I have been in two smashes with Marinas (first wrote off a Fiat 132, head-on, and the Marina was still driveable; second a side impact that wiped out an MG Midget but didn't even move the B-post) and I have witnessed the aftermath of two collosal crashes, one destroying a VOLVO 340 where the Marina still moved, the second a skid through a stand of trees, drystone wall, three rolls in a field and all doors were openable and they drove it to the gateway of the field. All four occupants walked away.
As long as the shell isn't riddled with rust the shell should handle the power without too much aggro, but if it doesn't, then further development work will cure it. I take my hat off to Ben for having a go at this; it's a damned shame this wasn'y done years ago instead of all those blinkered people trying to resurrect Escorts left, right and centre. If it leads to more Marinas being saved, I have no worries about that.
Does modifying it make my GT a kit? Ital front suspension, Dolomite 1850HL overdrive box, bespoke prop and MGB axle?
I think my T reg, tax exempt Ital suntor, 1700 with dolly sprint wheels & 5 speed box says something about my views on modification, dont you think?
Not FoRmoCo for me :twisted:
Hey there Ben
So pleased to see you have finally got a twin-cam coming together.
Havn't heard you this excited for a long time now..
No - I wouldn't have chosen the ford engine - thats 'cos I lack the skills to make such major changes - but I know enough about power-to-weight to appreciate how its going to perform.
I am also extremely pleased to be reassured by all and sundry about the inherent strength of the Marina shell - and the rear axle too.
I have not personally suffered any failures in either department over the years - but I too keep looking for extra power and will no doubt end up doing some destructive testing...
Had considered going to larger diameter wheels too - but the local superlites feature the wrong offset in 14" and 15" - so my current project is to have new 7" steel rims attached to some standard centres - that way I can use the original wheel trims.
Also hoping it may reduce the theft risk...
Best luck with the car - maybe I can get more of my daily fix back here now - sorta been lured away by retro-rides of late.
Cheers mate,
Kilroy
So pleased to see you have finally got a twin-cam coming together.
Havn't heard you this excited for a long time now..
No - I wouldn't have chosen the ford engine - thats 'cos I lack the skills to make such major changes - but I know enough about power-to-weight to appreciate how its going to perform.
I am also extremely pleased to be reassured by all and sundry about the inherent strength of the Marina shell - and the rear axle too.
I have not personally suffered any failures in either department over the years - but I too keep looking for extra power and will no doubt end up doing some destructive testing...
Had considered going to larger diameter wheels too - but the local superlites feature the wrong offset in 14" and 15" - so my current project is to have new 7" steel rims attached to some standard centres - that way I can use the original wheel trims.
Also hoping it may reduce the theft risk...
Best luck with the car - maybe I can get more of my daily fix back here now - sorta been lured away by retro-rides of late.
Cheers mate,
Kilroy