Should BL have launched a 'HOT' version of the Marina?

[1GMARINA]

I know one could have bought a Marina Coupe 1.8 twin carb model in the 1970s, and while it was quite a nippy car in it's day (still pretty good today) it wasn't really quick enough compared to say an RS Escort. So should British Leyland have introduced a Marina Coupe that was equal in performance to other high performance cars of the period?

If BL had of gone down this route, what engine and running gear do you think they should have fitted such a car with, modified 1.8 or looked elsewhere within their range of cars?

Another question that springs to mind is if such a car had ever been put into full production, would it have been a winner in terms of sales?

Steve

[stuthegasman]

I think a dolomite sprint version would have been a winner as not a lot of changes would have needed to be made plus it's still all BL might need a bit of tweaking to the brakes and suspension though :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[MarinaCoupe]

I agree about the Dolly Sprint version, but how about a 2.0 litre 'O' series, 5 speed gearbox, twin carb?

All this was available direct from a 2 litre Rover SD1 complete. The Marina gearbox tunnel would have needed widening. The O series was already in the Marina/Ital in 1.7 manual and 2.0 auto form.

As far as the rest of the running gear was concerned. I think that a late Ital front end with telescopic shocks, uprated torsion bars, uprated anti-roll bars and some Princess calipers would do it at the front and a late TR7 axle (cut down SD1 axle) with either suitable leaf spring mounts or a switch to trailing arms and coil springs at the rear would have made a world of difference.

And everything was on a BL shelf somewhere.

Going one stage further, later on the 2 litre O series could have had the Maestro Turbo kit adding.

[pjb1969]

I agree about the Dolly Sprint version, but how about a 2.0 litre 'O' series, 5 speed gearbox, twin carb?

All this was available direct from a 2 litre Rover SD1 complete. The Marina gearbox tunnel would have needed widening. The O series was already in the Marina/Ital in 1.7 manual and 2.0 auto form.

As far as the rest of the running gear was concerned. I think that a late Ital front end with telescopic shocks, uprated torsion bars, uprated anti-roll bars and some Princess calipers would do it at the front and a late TR7 axle (cut down SD1 axle) with either suitable leaf spring mounts or a switch to trailing arms and coil springs at the rear would have made a world of difference.

And everything was on a BL shelf somewhere.

Going one stage further, later on the 2 litre O series could have had the Maestro Turbo kit adding.

If anyone is interested in doing the 2.0 o series and 5 speed sd1 into a marina conversion i was at a breakers yard in birmingham just over a week ago and they had just bought in a 1984 sd1 2000 with twin carbs and a 5 speed box, it was in quite good condition especially the engine bay, the engine was complete and looked in very good condition although they said that they was told that it had been unused and garaged for a few years.They said they would be happy to either sell it whole or break it.It would be great to see someone do this conversion as it sounds fairly straightforward and would even appear factory if done right.

The yards contact details are
Name: BMBC Scrap Metal Merchant
Phone: 01675 442952 - 07792 263311
Address: Kenilworth Rd, Hampton-in-Arden, Solihull, B92 0LW.


Happy xmas everyone.

[ClaytonSpeed]

As for retro-fit applications I would favor either the sprint, TR7 2ltr or the RV8.

It would have to be the Sprint engine really. The SD1 block is just too troublesome.. The sprint engine is 16v after all! I'm no longer a fan of the O Series personally. I'd rather use a modern engine and electronics!!

Beniboyz

[Scoobydriver]

Don't think at the time it was needed, my mate had a TC and was rapid to say the least, and highly tunable....didn't need a bigger engine

[ice man]

I disagree slightly - there was not enough difference between the 1.8 sc and the TC.

Trouble is anything better would have eaten MGB's for breakfast - or they could have made the same engine and gearbox abailable for the 'b' too.

I think Marina V8 would have been the way forward, with independant coil suspension all round, and 6J14 wheels. It would hav been the UK's answer to the mustang and complimented the MGB range.

[ClaytonSpeed]

The problem would have been the same as any big engined car sales back then as the Fuel crisis was in full flow.

The RV8 is a nice motor don't get me wrong (so long as it is not bored out too excess using dodgy liners..) but I think if BL had really developed the 16v engines then they might have had the upper hand on future markets. Ho hum.

Beniboyz.

[1GMARINA]

but I think if BL had really developed the 16v engines then they might have had the upper hand on future markets. Ho hum.Beniboyz.

Interesting point. I'm trying to work out which was the first model (after the Sprint) to be fitted with a 16 valve engine, my memory must be failing.

Was it the MG Maestro/Montego Turbo versions or the Rover 214/216 models?

If it was the latter, it took several years to re-introduce another 16 valve engine to the buying public, a bit strange considering they already had their foot in the door with the Dolly Sprint engine.

Steve

[ice man]

but I think if BL had really developed the 16v engines then they might have had the upper hand on future markets. Ho hum.Beniboyz.

Interesting point. I'm trying to work out which was the first model (after the Sprint) to be fitted with a 16 valve engine, my memory must be failing.

Was it the MG Maestro/Montego Turbo versions or the Rover 214/216 models?

If it was the latter, it took several years to re-introduce another 16 valve engine to the buying public, a bit strange considering they already had their foot in the door with the Dolly Sprint engine.

Steve

The next 16v motor was launched in the rover 800 - the M series. it is a 16v twin cam head - developed from the combustion chamber shape of the old sprint engine, plonked onto an O series block. with the same 89 mm stroke 5 bearing crank going back to the B series.

It was tested in a vehicle they called the Monstro! it was a Maestro shell with a montego front end and it was fast as f.c.u.k. http://www.mgcars.org.uk/cambs.mgoc/fwd/M16.html

The launch of this engine in the Rover 820 was 1986 with the 16v engine.

It never made it into the Maestro and Montego - but it has been retrofitted with great success.

I have owned 5 M / T series 16v rover 800's and they are very good engines. they seem to suffer with a bad reputation for head gasket failure but its actually the 1.8 K series that fails. The M / T series will happilly do 150 k without intervention.

The K series 16v engine was launched in 1989 in the Mk 2 rover 214 - Mk 2 216's used honda engines.

Mk1 213's were a Honda engine and the 216 used either an S series or a Honda engine. all 8v

[Marinanut]

A Marina Sprint would have bee achieveable from the start because the Marina running gear is ostensibly Triumph from the bellhousing back. A 2.0 16V engine, with 4sd+o/d Sprint gearbox mated to a Sprint axle, ST-spec telescopic front suspension and relocated rear dampers would have been one hell of a weapon straight out of the box, mated to proper alloys and 175 wide tyres (minimum) would have been an Escort chaser straight away. The suspension set-up on the front of the Marina is the same style as Lotus were using, so its not bad, just not very well set up.
The problem was that internal politics would have killed the idea before birth. The Dolomite Sprint was the 'sporting' saloon of the BL range, even though it had a 60's look when introduced in the 70's whereas the Marina was bang-on for the era. Another missed opportunity. :roll:

[JoshWard]

Another missed opportunity. :roll:

get yer spanners out and make a few

[Uncle Frank]

Sorry to pick up on this strand a bit late guys..(been a bit busy with TG stuff ), but everyone seems to have forgotten they already did do a `hot` version of the 1300 and the 1800, you could take your car to an approved ST service centre and add all the power you needed, you could go for the `pluspac `s` which would take your standard 0 - 60 from 17.5 secs to 13.8 for the 1300, and for the 1800 you could go from 14.0 secs down to 8.9 secs with a pluspac `S` on a TC Coupe, not bad for a 1972 production motor with a few tweaks!, everything else was there too, you could buy all the handling components you needed, from anti tramp bars to turreting kits to alloy wheels...Like the ones Jimbo has just fitted to his TC , no need to supply a ready made one really because those that really wanted the extra power and performance could just add it.

[1GMARINA]

Interesting point. I'm trying to work out which was the first model (after the Sprint) to be fitted with a 16 valve engine, my memory must be failing.

Was it the MG Maestro/Montego Turbo versions or the Rover 214/216 models?

If it was the latter, it took several years to re-introduce another 16 valve engine to the buying public, a bit strange considering they already had their foot in the door with the Dolly Sprint engine.

Steve

The next 16v motor was launched in the rover 800 - the M series. it is a 16v twin cam head - developed from the combustion chamber shape of the old sprint engine, plonked onto an O series block. with the same 89 mm stroke 5 bearing crank going back to the B series.

I completely forgot about the Rover 800 series, :shock: but you're absolutely right.

Sorry to pick up on this strand a bit late guys..(been a bit busy with TG stuff ), but everyone seems to have forgotten they already did do a `hot` version of the 1300 and the 1800, you could take your car to an approved ST service centre and add all the power you needed, you could go for the `pluspac `s` which would take your standard 0 - 60 from 17.5 secs to 13.8 for the 1300, and for the 1800 you could go from 14.0 secs down to 8.9 secs with a pluspac `S` on a TC Coupe, not bad for a 1972 production motor with a few tweaks!, everything else was there too, you could buy all the handling components you needed, from anti tramp bars to turreting kits to alloy wheels...Like the ones Jimbo has just fitted to his TC , no need to supply a ready made one really because those that really wanted the extra power and performance could just add it.

That's a hefty improvement, especially on the 1.8 version, that's certainly got enough go in it to give a lot of established cars of the day a real fright.

Steve

[ClaytonSpeed]

One of the issues that BL would have come up against in development of new cars was that all the brands didn't want to speak to each other! They had been rivals and now were thrown together and they didn't like it.

I chatted to a chap that used to work for standard triumph way back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. His views were quite political and referred to Leyland’s offers as rubbish. The car company's departments didn't want to give away the company’s secrets and know how. BL attributed to it's own downfall internally even before it got to the public.

Creating a car that was to help a government lead organisation out of debt needed to be simple and use as many parts that had been proven by many years of testing. IF BL had been ran differently then I am sure we could have seen a 16v Marina. Why BL were not quick to develop the Triumph motor into other cars was because Triumph didn't want its engine in anything that wasn't Triumph. It lost out as the next 16v engine was not until the M series in the 80's. Good in principle but yet another engine that BL under developed and got taken over by better built GM and Japanese engines.

Whilst BL was developing the O series engine (the B replacement) it had been toying with putting it in MG cars. The problem was that they hadn't further developed the MG range since the mid 70's from how I see it!

Beniboyz