*** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

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Uncle Frank
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by Uncle Frank » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:29 pm

It`s ok Alan...i can take all the stick you can throw mate, no offence taken :wink: , as for the southern cars survival rate thing as opposed to northern cars, that argument doesn`t stand for me coming from a coastal town next to the english channel surrounded by the sea all year round!, if mk1 cars survive here better than the later models i still think it is because they were built to a higher standard and possibly of decent welsh steel as opposed to imported lower grade stuff.
I have been repairing them for a living these last 20 years or so along with many other BMC/BL products, i would add that mk1 Minis are of a far superior build quality to the later 70`s and 80`s models, my own bias towards the mk1 is pretty much applied to all cars, because that was how the designer wanted them to look, mk1 Minis look by far the best, as do Ford Escorts, Audi`s coupe...before they rounded off all the corners :roll: , Porsches`924 before they beefed it up with those fat arches to make it into the 944, mk1 Capris were beautifully styled then they replaced it with the slab sided mk2..yuk!, there are one or two exceptions i can think of...the mk2 Sierra was better looking than the original with that hideous grille, and the mk2 Cortina was a nice looking replacement for the mk1, but then we all know who designed that ay! :wink: :lol:
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by Ady » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:08 pm

Hi ya

With you Frank on the North/South thing, the car I got is from Derby. Lasted quite well, cos after 1983 the guy who owned it only drove it to the garage every year for it's test :)

I'm on the same lines, cars are only restored because that person has a link to that particular model, be it their first car (like me) or that they worked on them back in the day or any other of 1000s of reasons. I'm sure if I had had a Mk2 or Ital or even (god forbid) a Mk3 Escort (had one :oops: ) as my first car I would be paying someone £1000s to restore that. But, no it's a Mk1 Morris Marina 1.3 SDL and proud of it. :lol: Its all a matter of personnel taste!
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by Alan The Exocet » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:54 pm

Hello Frank :D thank you for you reply,i know you are the Xpert in all things Marina (Russ wouldn't trust anyone else with his pick up) but i know i'm going over the same ground,and as you say and with your knowledge the Mk1 cars are better built,i still think that climate has a huge impact on survival on the news tonight it said that Sheffield had put down 400 tonnes of salt on the local roads.and 5055 comments point to the same conclusion.
The later minis are pretty poor the doors are like tin on them,i think the metal was worse but the rust proofing might be better so they seem to stand up better.
Could you tell me please how the north south divide works out with the cars of all the models,as i said before all the photos and you tube stuff seem to show nearly all southern cars.

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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by The original northen boy » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:48 am

Ay up fellas,

Some interesting points have been raised,now i would never go against the "fountain of all Marina knowledge" Frank on the build quality of the Marina range but i on the same page as you young Exocet and Larry with the Northern cars vs Southern cars,now on the face of it you would think that the worst place to have any car never mind a Marina would be an island or a coastal town,such as The Isle of Wight,that is surrounded by sea,the only thing i can think off that would put a plausible argument up against this situation is this,the salt deposits that are blown from the sea are deposited more onto the outsides of the vehicles bodywork,and therefore can be removed far easier via washing with a hose pipe,the northern car has the problem compounded that grit salt is laid down by the ton and not only dose the outside of the vehicle take vast amounts of salt spray (you can see dark colour cars turning salt white in the winter and if your were brave enough you can taste it) but the underneath of the car gets a salt dowsing that gets into every nook and cranny of the chassis and underneath,and this is compounded by the fact the underneath doesn't get chance to dry out and is permanently damp allowing salt laced trapped mud to corroded unchecked.

Now marina east says a very interesting thing that the tax exemption aspect of the MK1 plays a part in the desirability of the car,and to this i would agree,and to the period charm of the car,the MK1 does look far older than the later models,the inside of the MK1's is frankly primitive in comparison to the other models,indeed far more 70's,where as the Mk3 (to my eyes at least looks far more modern to illustrate this check out Kilroys MK3 on "what wheels fit a Marina" in the technical section of fastmarinamagazine) so speaking for myself the period charm is sacrificed for style,design and superior road handling.But i really do believe that it is "each to his own"

The last point i would like to address is Ady's now as you mention the link to a certain model only being restored because you have a link to them,and on many occasions this will be correct,but i would think that most people choose have a car restored simply because they like the car,to illustrate this point i would draw attention to people who have American cars restored,where they can be no link whatsoever to them,often the cars were made before they were even born,and completely alien to there motoring experiences,yet it is through choice not connection that they have work under taken on them.
Now on to your car it's a 74/75 car that had only 9 years at most on the northern roads in the winter so again the build aspect is probably vastly offset by it's limited usage (i'm sorry if the car had a harder life than i'm giving it) but Ady i must congratulate you on the fact you you have one of the often over looked MK1s and you are rightfully proud of it.

Now as off sign of after this vast post,i must quote the old saying "variety is the spice of life"

Russ

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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by MarinaCoupe » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:37 pm

I am not looking to upset anyone so please don't take this personally.

People buy cars for personal reasons it's difficult to categorise. I wanted to go classic rallying and couldn't afford an Escort etc. so I bought a Marina, because I remember Car and Car Conversions running one. Then I got into Marinas and decided that I'd end up wrecking it if I rallied it.

I am not convinced about the salt on Northern roads arguement, my MK 1 Coupe was rotten in all the usual places, needed new wings, rear arches, sills, headlamp panels. It lived in Devon almost of it's life and was used most of the time according to all the old MOTs and 70K miles overall.

I think the point about sea salt only landing on the top of the car doesn't work either, the salt spray also lands on the roads and as soon as they are wet, the wheels spray it up underneath as you drive along.

I do agree with one of the other arguements however, people like early cars as they define the design, everything that comes later are tweeks to the design. Look at any model or marque and it's the early cars that are the most sought after. It's counter intuitive for Marinas, the later ones clearly handle better, are better trimmed, are more economic, quieter, better colours etc., but it's the early cars that are sought after. All those good reasons for later cars are the same reasons that they are cannibalised for MK1s.

Would I buy a late car? Yes, just have. A 1.3 Ital, non runner, requires work on bodywork and mechanics. Am I going to break it for my Coupe - no. I'm going to keep her dry and work out a plan of action as I haven't told the wife yet. I'm going to need a good boot lid, preferrably white if anyone has one.

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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by JubileeNut » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:18 pm

Roads are great! :?
Well they dig them up and repair them in the summer when we want to go on holiday, which causes chip damage, then in the winter they put salt down helping those chips spread in to holes :twisted: :roll:

If they moved the drain covers in to the pavement where there is less wear and people used snow tyres and learnt to drive maybe they would stop putting salt down :roll: :wink:

Lucky we don't get deep snow down here, as a snow plough will dig up up the bleeding tarmac which is a thin as a nats willy and as patchy as a sheep with alopecia!
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by The original northen boy » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:55 am

No need to apologize Chris,as this is just different views on the same subject,and you have chosen to respond in a gentlemanly and respectful manner so no offence taken in any way shape or form :D

Just a final point on the salting topic,and after a little more investigation i have revised my initial synopsis about the effects of sodium chloride (salt ) i stated in error that for example such areas as the Isle of wight or any coastal town that is in proximity to the influence sea water that salt deposits could be washed off quite easier thus helping maintain the vehicles longevity,this statement relied on the fact that vehicles were in contact with direct sea water.
Sea water contains on average 3.5 units of sodium chloride per every 100 units of water (3.5% salt [sodium chloride] to 96.5% water) the assumption i made was that salt is present and this is deposited simply by proximity to the sea,this would on be accurate if sea water was blown on to the car and leaving a deposit,in the case of high winds blowing sea water onto the land,but in reality this is an infrequent happening.Natural evaporation does not remove sodium chloride to facilitate this occurrence,remember your basic physics at school,to extract fresh water from a saline solution if the solution is distilled and the vapor removed once cooled this is fresh water,so presuming that salt is present in the atmosphere by proximity to a source is incorrect,no mater how much water is evaporated by the sun it will not reappear via rain fall or by aerobic deposit,another examples of this my be seen as Malta a relatively small island that has many older vehicles that are almost devoid of rust,simply because the sodium chloride in the sea stays there's no mater how much of the sea evaporates.

The salt (as sea water) that is blown directly off the sea is in far lower amounts than road applied as we have already mentioned only 3.5% of sea water is sodium chloride to deposit the 400 tons of salt that was used in one night by Sheffield City Council,to obtain the 400 tons of salt in one application over 11000 tons of sea water would have to be deposited at one go and remain on the road surface and not cover any other area whatsoever,until the entire water content had evaporated leaving the salt only.

Different county councils have different policies for their winter gritting schemes,southern councils my only grit when the weather forecasts are more definite about the prospect of adverse weather conditions,northern councils often applied grit salt as (A) precautionary measure (B) and for longer periods of time,the amount of salt added to the grit/salt mixture my very also from a southern mix of 30% salt 70% course sand to a northern councils mix of 50% salt 50% course sand,so as you progress more northerly the amount of salt you my encounter is often stronger and over a longer period of time (between 60 and 70 times on average the roads are treated in the Sheffield and Derbyshire area over the winter period).The application of salt on the road is often limited the properties of salt as a thawing agent starts to loose it's effectiveness at minus-4C and is completely ineffective at minus-10C.The cost of a full nights gritting in Derbyshire is around £30,000 to treat 1,555 miles of the counties roads (source Derbyshire County Council http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transport_ ... /gritting/

On a final footing when Marinas were still plentiful often of a weekend myself and other the other lads who would travel from the North East all the way down south to buy cars,why when they were so many cars available you might ask? simply because the southern cars were in a better condition,Bournemouth was a prime destination.

Russ

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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by Uncle Frank » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:29 pm

:shock: You are really starting to worry me now Russ...you need to get out more mate! :wink: :lol:..or perhaps some chips & gravy to go with all that salt!
Last edited by Uncle Frank on Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by JIM73 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:46 pm

Are you bored at work Russ ? :shock:
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by JIM73 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:59 pm

Now't queerer than folk ! eh Frank ? :wink:
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by The original northen boy » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:07 pm

:D :D :D Very funny fellas :D :D :D
You've caught me out here the weather has basically killed all trade this week so yea bored senseless,with far too much time on my hands (no doubt as you can tell)
and a low sodium diet from now on.

Thank you for you concern

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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by Uncle Frank » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:27 pm

:wink: Sorry Russ...didn`t mean to rub salt in the wound :lol: :lol: :lol:..i`ll buy you a nice pie next time i see you :wink:
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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by JIM73 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:41 pm

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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by The original northen boy » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:49 pm

:( :( :( Oh so cruel (but so true) :( :( :(
I'll take you up on the offer of the pie with lashings of Henderson Relish,oh and the chips and the gravy (can i have peas as well please and maybe a helping of scraps) well we might as well go the full HOG hadn't i?

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Re: *** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

Post by Clan Chieftain » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:58 pm

I remember Marina mail vans from Isle of Skye going to the Glasgow market for sale with the roof guttering rotten almost right through.
As for the north/south divide we dont have any snow at the moment :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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