Reproduced Petrol Tanks.

[The General]

One of the members of ecosse has been busy working on reproduction petrol tanks, thay will be made out of polyurethene plastic with aluminium filler necks and will come in at around £140 ( discount for members ) If anyone would be interested let me know and will answer any questions you may have.

[masterbodger]

just curious, are they a direct replacement like for like, or are they a sufficient to fit, like a rally one i once saw made from kevlar? i think.

ooh, and what would happen as far as senders go? same place or a more modern approach?


good idea mind

[Uncle Frank]

just curious, are they a direct replacement like for like, or are they a sufficient to fit, like a rally one i once saw made from kevlar? i think.

ooh, and what would happen as far as senders go? same place or a more modern approach?


good idea mind

This is actually my old mate Russ who is currently enquiring about these tanks, from my discussions with him they would be made from a plastic similar to ABS Plastic, to the exact sizes and dimensions of the original tanks, the only exception would be the filler neck, this would have to be cut from your existing tank and joined with a rubber sleeve and jubilee clips (bit like the mgb ones) to the new tank. The sender fitting would be replaced by a `barrel fitting`, similar to that on a 40 gallon drum i would think, Russ is generally sounding us out as to whether he can afford to subsidise buying the twenty units they need to make, in order for it to be worthwhile.
So if you are interested in a new fuel tank that will probably outlast your car, let us know on here and we can let Russ know if this idea is a goer or not....i`ll start the ball rolling and go for two Russ!

[jiversteve]

Dont want to put a damper on things but...
The SVA / IVA Regulations that may apply to a restored vehicle are quite clear.

To quote section 03A of the IVA manual
Plastic Fuel Tanks
2. The vehicle must be accompanied by satisfactory evidence that the tank is designed for road use or the fuel tank is an original fitment to a mass produced vehicle, or has been previously and is un-modified.

Agreed that you can make almost any mod to a finished car, and provided it gets past the MOT tester, it's accepted as being legal, but if a bespoke limited production tank were to fail, causing injury etc it would be difficult to defend in a court of law.
For example I would expect a tank designed for road use to be designed by a recognised automotive manufacturer.
Off road and rally applications are different but they still need to meet specific criteria.

If it can be done though it would be of use. Certainly Marlin owners who use Escort Mk 1 and 2 Van or Estate tanks would love a source of replacement tanks.

[Uncle Frank]

The company who are offering to manufacture these tanks are a proper company who make tanks for other vehicles, the trouble is...how often do you see genuine tanks come up for sale now?, there is not much else we can do but improvise on what is available, the only other option would be to fit a rally spec tank in the boot i suppose :? .

[The General]

to get the appropriate approval the cost of the tanks would be a lot higher. For example are the wing repair panels up to british saftey standards ? It would cost fortunes to do so, that is why you cannot transport the replacment panels from abroad where the car is currently still made. At the end of the day no one is going to force anyone to buy reproduction tanks or panels etc, but on the other hand you will never need to replace it or worry about it rotting away.

[ado28]

Dont want to put a damper on things but...
The SVA / IVA Regulations that may apply to a restored vehicle are quite clear.

To quote section 03A of the IVA manual
Plastic Fuel Tanks
2. The vehicle must be accompanied by satisfactory evidence that the tank is designed for road use or the fuel tank is an original fitment to a mass produced vehicle, or has been previously and is un-modified.

Agreed that you can make almost any mod to a finished car, and provided it gets past the MOT tester, it's accepted as being legal, but if a bespoke limited production tank were to fail, causing injury etc it would be difficult to defend in a court of law.
For example I would expect a tank designed for road use to be designed by a recognised automotive manufacturer.
Off road and rally applications are different but they still need to meet specific criteria.

If it can be done though it would be of use. Certainly Marlin owners who use Escort Mk 1 and 2 Van or Estate tanks would love a source of replacement tanks.

What sort of sad W4NK are you quoting SVA/ IVA rules and regs? Get a life mate!

Sean

Beckett Bros "moving up a gear"

[JubileeNut]

And there ends another topic :roll:

[The original northen boy]

Gentlemen i thank you for your responses and interest.

The initial purpose of this exercise was to be in a position to aid the Marina/Ital owner with a direct replacement fuel tank for their cars,a part that is becoming harder and harder to find and now with prices for new tanks sometimes going for over the £100+ mark a realistic spare at a sensible cost but also a product that is vastly superior to the manufactures original part,indeed so good a replacement that it would theoretically last a lifetime.

Yet in my haste to further this project i forgot to do all the now accepted background checks and product compliance checks,in my ignorance i over looked modern procedure and now standard industry practice.

However, there are various regulations concerning fire resistance, impact strength, permeability etc. with which they must comply. These requirements are set out in UN standard ECE R.34 Annex 5. SP tests tanks against this standard and against the vehicle manufacturers' own requirements. The ECE R.34 tests are (in general terms) as follows:

Evaporative emission testing

This test measures the average permeation of petrol vapour over an eight-week period, by weighing the tanks and recording the loss of weight. During the test, the tanks are stored at a temperature of +40 °C in explosion-resistant areas.

Mechanical strength

The tanks are filled with water at +53 °C, and then subjected to an internal positive pressure of 30 kPa for five hours. The ambient temperature is also maintained
at 53 °C.

Impact testing

The tanks are filled with a glycol/water mixture and cooled to -40 °C, before being subjected to blows from a pyramid-shaped body with an impact energy of 30 Nm.

Thermal testing

The tanks are filled with water at a temperature of +20 °C, and then placed in a test chamber for one hour at a temperature of +95 °C.

Fire resistance

The tanks are filled with fuel to half their volume and exposed to a naked flame for two minutes.

And i must say that these fuel tanks would without doubt attain and even excel these stringent testing procedure,as they are deemed to be a direct replacement tank and not a new unit for a yet not released auto vehicle,yet i would believe that this would be open to conjecture.

Made from Plastic (HDPE)[High-density polyethylene] as the fuel tank material of construction,these tanks are fully seamless so therefor far safer in an accident than a normal metal seemed tank and have all the necessary anti-lap baffles as per the original item yet offer a 35% reduction in weight over the standard metal units and would also have a barrel sender unit fitting rather than the original fitting,the major difference between the standard fitted original fuel tank is the absence of the fuel filler neck,this is missing for this reason,simply cost (the mold is far more complex to make with this edition,making the finished product more expensive,so the old thnk filler neck would need to be used and joined by a hose section (or the use of petrol retardant convoluted pipe that can be supplied) the only external difference apart from this is (at my request) would be the elongation of the bolt mounting holes,simply to make fitting that bit easier.

The company who manufacture these were once part of the Abm Group) and have supplied the motor industry with HDPE tanks since the mid 1990's,their products are fitted to the Iveco Euro Cargo,Fiat commercial vehicles,Peugeot and Toyota Cars UK,this is a fully professional company that is to BS standards.

The minimum run is 20/25 units,this includes the initial set up cost of the mold (this is a fixed cost so if the scheme was to get no further than a prototype this would be charged)

The manufacturing and production costs of the initial run,would have been financially stood if enough people were interested in obtaining a new tank unit,yet in the light of the recent events this sadly now will be a non-starter,due to the safety and compliance issues raised.

I most heartily thank all those concerned for their support,Frank for his faith to order two tanks on my say so,Ray for his promotional efforts and Sean for his willingness to challenge my cause and show unquestionable loyalty.

Once again i thank all those involved.

Russ
Beckett Bros "Phantom 309"
_________________

[locost_bryan]

Russ,

As an observer from the farthest flung outpost of the Empire , is a Marina required to have an original fuel tank for the MoT test, or is that not checked? And would there be any insurance issues? Have to confess I have no idea what the situation would be here in NZ :? (apart from any "significant" modifications needing to be approved by a certifying engineer :roll: ).

As your tanks are/were to come from a manufacturer who specialises in that area, would they be able to sign them off as compliant without having to retest them?

I'd hate to see your initiative wasted due to beaurocratic red tape.

[ado28]

Hi Brian,

The Marina doesn't need to have an original fuel tank for the MOT. As long as the tank is secure to the vehicle and doesn't leak then your fine. It also wouldn't affect your insurance as its just a replacement part.

Its just unfortunate that you always get one smart-arse who thinks he/she knows better.

Sean

Beckett Bros" -1"

[JubileeNut]

Well if the tank is all OK then please carry on with sorting it out as it sounds like a great idea!
Don't let a persons word stop what you like or are doing.
However if the person is correct then it is lucky no money has been wasted!

[Uncle Frank]

Could i just point out that Steve did have a valid point, and was quite right to raise it, however he is probably approaching it from the point of view of someone who has built a Kit Car, and the rules and regulations for those are much stiffer, so i can see where he was coming from and didn`t really deserve the abuse levelled at him.
Russ however i think should be praised for his efforts and we should get behind ideas like this or find ourselves searching ebay or Autojumbles every time we need a part such as this, so come on guys lets see some positive feedback on this subject, or no one will bother to do anything like this in the future!

[vermillion]

I too could see the point that Steve was trying to make and if he was right could have saved someone an awful amount of money. However, I would imagine that Russ has not gone into this lightly and has researched it thoroughly. This being the case and if it were to go ahead then I for one would most definately be interested in getting one of these tanks for the Mumford

[masterbodger]

it would be nice to have a fuel tank thats not full of cr4p, and have a reliable sender unit in it. which brings me on to wiring, is there a unified spec between sender and dash fuel gauges?

i.e with a modern sender will it read right on a 30+ fuel gauge?

other than that i thinks it would be a very good idea, especially if its going to be safer, lighter and actually obtainable for reasonable moneys. good resource for restorations?

if they do happen id be seriously considering one, im fed up of messing with mine :roll: