1980 Marina 575 Van

[locost_bryan]

Hohoho...

Got the race car to Zeb's garage - ready for Part II.
This entire body has been paint-dipped...




Will hopefully drop engine/gearbox/propshaft out this Saturday and see where we go next.

This is all so cool.

Better check the PCD, iirc John's race car was based on an Aussie TC, so is likely to still have it's 108mm PCD and 3.89:1 Borg Warner Model 68 rear axle (with anti-tramp bar). Might even have the larger discs from the Aussie 6 (check also if the upright is the later Aussie one shown in Darren's V8 thread). If the axle has two tramp bars, it's the 3.70:1 6-cylinder axle...

Should make the van go like stink.

[Kilroy]

Hey guys.

Got the engine/gearbox/propshaft out today.
Lots of stuff was lockwired as you might expect from a race car setup.
Engine has no oil, but cylinder head appears to have been tensioned.
Gearbox all rebuilt - geared starter from something - lighter flywheel - all alloy engine backplate - very large bore freeflow exhaust manifold - many mods to all mounting points and brackets.
Amazing to spend the morning dropping engine and gearbox and still have clean hands.!

Gearbox appears to be standard Marina from the outside. Not sure what limitations the classic race class might impose on changing such things.
3 spare gearboxes in the boot however - have brought 2 home to investigate their contents.
There is a beautiful alloy radiator which has come home with me too - no room for it in the V8 engine bay.
Gearlever has had some mods to ensure that the lever stays positioned correctly, and cannot come out.
I think the flywheel has been thinned a bit - need to compare it to a stock item.
A Mini clutch slave cylinder has been used and is bolted securely to the bell housing.
Bell housing has been blanked off with an alloy plate behind the starter location.
A very solid alloy plate has been used as the rear gearbox mount.

I shall retain all the drivetrain for my half of the purchase price - Zeb will retain the body - suspension - rear axle and most of the numerous spares - including a spare 1800 block and cylinder head.
The rear axle is indeed one featuring two leading links which with the rear springs form a parallelogram and thus a very strong rear axle position.
The lowering blocks look to be about 3", so the propshaft was severely kinked around the centre bearing. A one-piece shaft would suit the V8 installation much better.

The race engine is missing its oil filter housing and related bits. There is a remote filter mounted on the inner guard. That will remain for the V8.
I had previously given Zeb a spare 1800 short block I had - and it features a spin-off filter conversion housing - so I will reclaim that for use.
The trumpets fitted to the carbs have no filtration whatsoever, and I would not run a road car without such.
I have a complete TC airfilter assembly including the two alloy right angle fittings to mate with the carbs - but I would still consider fabricating something in order to retain the trumpets.
Much to consider.
Cylinder head has had the outer ports opened up a bit, but not a great degree of smoothing inside. I am tempted to leave it alone and see how it performs.
I also have an alloy inlet manifold with a 48mm Dellorto twin choke sidedraft carb - would be quite keen to implement that.
I know there are a pair of 45mm Webers here in my garage too, but no manifolds to match.

No idea what camshaft profile this engine has. I will measure all the valve clearances to see what they look like - will give me some idea if it has been set up ready to go or not.
Apart from the spacers fitted between the rocker arms, I can see it has competition single valve springs and no guide seals fitted. There is some felt pen marking to indicate this.
If I wanted to fit seals I would need to lift the head. While it would make sense for a road use scenario, I figure I may run it as-is initially to see what it does.
All the rumours suggest that this was a very expensive engine build, so I would tend to assume that it was put together by people who knew what they were doing.

Tomorrow I will take photos of all the above for your edification.
I will have much to do before this thing draws a breath - but I am simply loving the process.
A brilliant sunny winter day today working with Zeb in his garage - both our projects are progressing.
Could not be better.

Cheers all.
Kilroy

[Kilroy]

Some new information has come to light.

There is a possibility that this Marina Coupe is a genuine Left Hand Drive import. It certainly has a proper LHD steering rack and dashboard, but no way of knowing whether they were later fitments.
Difficult to trace its history as being a race car it has no rego or chassis plate.
The entire body has been paint-dipped, so traces of original wear and tear have been obliterated.
If it is genuine it would make sense to keep it that way.

The fun just keeps coming...

[locost_bryan]

A friend of mine, Graeme Cornelius, is the Clerk of Course at Ruapuna and knew John. Give him a call, he may be able to point you to someone who may know more...

Graeme also used to drive a Marina 6 many years ago.

[SLOW ITAL]

The engine build sounds Awsome Kilroy,
This is going to be one hellova mean street rod.....
Gil...

[Kilroy]

Photos from yesterday and today.

The race coupe has relinquished its engine and gearbox..





I have never worked under a car so shiny new..





Here is the engine in its rather unknown form..





Loaded into the van for its trip home - should be mounted a few feet further north..





Unloaded at my place - and already has its alloy rocker cover fitted..





The yard is looking much more in the correct frame of mind today..





.. and this way too..





This unassuming little van is inline for a rather frightening transplant.





Much work yet to be done though. Full rebuild of suspension plus many other changes to come.
Have a great week folks.
Kilroy.

[MarinaCoupe]

I like the under car picture of the racer, drilled lower suspension arms yet. Reduces unsprung weight, any other racer mods?


Chris
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[Kilroy]

Chris.

Shitloads of mods - some rather frightening.

For example - these engine mounting plates...




The bellhousing bolts have had internal drilling.
Did you see the bonnet hinges.?





Both front and rear engine plates are alloy.
Even the water pump pulley is full of holes.
I discovered that 2 of the solid spacers between the rocker arms were too large - and thus restricting movement of the rocker arms.
I have detensioned the cylinder head and removed the rocker shaft in order to address this.
I also need to identify what cam profile has been used in order to ascertain what clearances to use.
The existing clearances varied from 1/4" to zero - so I can only assume they have never been set correctly.
It appears that the cylinder head had been tensioned to around 58 ft lbs, but I have no choice but to make all settings again after checking the components.
The more we look - the more it appears that this was a first build - so nothing can be assumed to have been finalised.

Strange that I should be involved with a B Series unit when I was all geared to construct a high spec O series one.
Rest assured that this is only a momentary aberration.
The O series unit will follow soon.
Actually - it will be most interesting to see what the relative performances look like.
Gut feeling is that the 2 litre O Series will blitz a B Series off the mark - but the B Series appears to be the better high speed unit.
Funny - as I would have assumed it to be the other way round.

What fun.!

More as it occurs.

Cheers all,
Kilroy

[MarinaCoupe]

I tried fitting the rocker spacers on my B series some years back and had the same problem with them binding. I think that they were designed for the earlier B series engines. On the 18V engine the rocker posts are thicker, so the gaps for the spacers is less. I suspect some judicious work with a file or grinder on track spacers would 'help' them fit.

I think that the engine mounts are a bit on the cheesy side, not much meat left and likely to distort under load.

On a road car big torque will be more useful than a track orientated screamer.




Chris

[shaw]

Hello Kilroy,

An interesting find that race car, would you be able to tell me if they are any numbers on those gearbox mount chassis sections that are welded to the floor as they look like an original part?

Best of luck with getting the B engine sorted.

Ian

[Number 63]

Completely missed this. Fantastic find and back story.

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[Marinanut]

Considering the lower arms are the main stress component of the suspension, I wouldn't have put any more holes than BL intended in them......

[Kilroy]

Holes only make things stronger.

Have you not noticed that paper will never tear on the perforated line..?

Shaw - no part numbers visible on those mounting plates sorry.

Small update.
Have made 20 small improvements to the van - adjusting mirrors, doors, bonnet.
Repaired leaking exhaust and leaking carb.
Door handles, indicators, rear brake adjustment.
Honestly - if you do not love these cars - you will never get them to top working order.
Currently building up excellent car rear axle for fitment with 2" lowered heavy duty car rear springs - which are softer than van rear springs.
I can notice the absence of a front anti sway bar and will fit one soon.
Radius rods have proved to have nolathane bushes and instead the bad noises are coming from the steering rack - which has the worst case of knackered left side bush I have ever seen.
Between this and the totally ineffective handbrake I have no idea how this thing ever passed a wof test.
Apart from all that - it is great fun to drive and I do so at every opportunity.
Despite having fixed a serious exhaust leak - there is a disproportionate amount of mechanical noise emanating from the engine.
If you stand behind this van while the engine is running you cannot hear the exhaust over the clattering of the engine.
Which happens to be at the other end..!
I shall retighten the cylinder head and set the valve clearances - can anyone tell me what they should be please - I have no info on the A Series unit whatsoever.
Despite this van being titled a "1982" model - it is a standard Mk3 with normal Marina layout.
My other 575 van titled a "1981" model has Ital door handles and the later type front mudguard setup with a large cavity behind the headlights.
I thus assume that this van is earlier but was first registered later.
I was correct in my assumption that the indicator self-cancelling apparatus was 180 degrees out. Simple fix except that the steering wheel was a bitch to remove.
I have noticed how easy it is to get in and out of this van. Shame then that I am going to lower it by 2" - but I simply have to.
Aesthetics demand it.
I have purchased some stainless wheel nuts from Rimmer Bros as all my chrome ones are in bad shape.
I also secured some weather seal strips from Earlpart for the front doors. I have bought the longer type for the doors without quarterlight windows.
The doors on this van have them - but I prefer the larger glass as it does not obscure the external mirrors - which I use a lot.
I shall therefore make up a pair of doors with the larger glass and paint them accordingly.
I am currently engaged in sourcing self-adhesive sound proofing material to cover the roof. Still trying to find the best type.
They all seem to be expensive and the roof is big - but I wish to banish condensation - so it has to happen.
Progress on the race motor is slow - though I managed to track down the suppliers of the camshaft, and they have given me a printout of the specs - so at least I know the correct valve clearance settings to use.
For those interested - the cam duration has gone from 230 degrees (TC/HL) to 243. Overlap remains at 37 degrees.
I think this will be quite tractable in a road car. Or van...

That is all I know for now.

[MarinaCoupe]

Kilroy noisy A series could be worn/ loose timing chain and or its tensioner. They are same as Mini so readily available. It sounds like the car hasn't been particularly well maintained, so timing chain is a distinct possibility.

The timing chain sprockets wear into 'dog-teeth' so if worn, then consider the duplex crank & cam sprockets, with matching chain. I think that all tensioners are the same.


Chris
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[Kilroy]

An update then.

The tired A series seems content to bumble along, so I shall leave well alone.
I have replaced the steering rack and steering column with items from one of my Mk3 saloons that is heading for the graveyard.
Huge improvement.
Having the ignition key on the right of the column makes operating the choke on a cold morning 1000% easier.
God knows why they put the key on the left on the commercials.

I have acquired soundproofing material for the undersides of the roof which will also thermally insulate.
Also a 7.5m roll of thinner material to do all door apertures, body access openings etc. Want this thing warm and quiet inside.
Outside - who cares...!
I had previously noticed how much quieter a saloon was when it had a vinyl roof covering - shame they did not see fit to add something above the headlining in all saloons.
I stripped all the soundproofing material from behind the dash of the wreck Mk3, and all will be fitted to the van.
The previous van had full carpet in the back - so some form of panels had been added to the inner sides. May attempt that too..

Am building up the best rear axle I can muster to soon be fitted along with lighter and lowered rear springs.
That will of course move the stud pattern to car type, so I shall also fit car type front hubs - in preparation for the addition of my Superlites which have had new tyres fitted.
This will also involve lowering the front suspension - a good time to totally strip everything and check condition.
A front antiswaybar will be added at the same time.

After that will come removal of the original dashboard, heater and wiring loom.
All the soundproofing will be glued in, then the wiring loom added and a Mk3 dash fitted - although I may leave the floor console out. It seems much easier to move about in the cabin without it.
I may need to install the 1800 anti-run on air valve if the engine suggests it needs one - no fixed ideas on the likely behaviour of this engine yet.
I have a 48mm Dellorto carb and alloy manifold that I could use instead of the twin SU setup.
Would certainly make the operating mechanisms simpler. It just may be harder to tune.
Would likely yield a few more horsepower...

Mate Zeb came round to grab a bit of sheet metal he needs for his V8 coupe project.
One guy with a grinder can sure mess up your car...

Small improvements made to several other Marinas - but this is just the van page.

Cheers.