Cam seal replacement- Engine won't start

[Brenjacques]

Hi, I changed the seal on the cam cover on the marina yesterday (1700 O series). Tried starting it today but it isn't starting, just turning over. I made sure the cam wasn't moved or altered but I have been thinking whether I could have somehow sent the distributors timing off? The car had off timing when I got it and the symptoms it is showing are similar to how it was then, it turned over freely with no problems or weird noises.
Any thoughts?

[Kilroy]

Did you remove the cambox cover - or just replace the seal by prising the old one out?

[Brenjacques]

Hi, I removed the cambox cover to replace it.

Cheers

[Kilroy]

Then you could have altered the relationship between cam and distributor.
I would also check that the fuel pump arm is correctly located - just checking for fuel output while cranking would prove that one.

If fuel pump is ok then you will need to time the distributor again.
The Haines manual describes it well enough.

I can quote it if you do not have one.

[david painter]

Seem to remember O Series engine is timed half way down the bore, top mark is easy as its a dot visable through hole in back of bracket that holds top cam cover to cylinder head. Cant remember crank mark without looking on Autodata at work tomorrow. That said if you go back to old school set crank to TDC mark remove oil filler cap and see if valves are rocking on no 1 cylinder for correct valve timing then turn crankshaft 360deg in direction of rotation back to TDC mark move distributor cap and check rotor arm pointing to no 1. Points should be open. Turn engine in direction of rotation looking which way rotor arm is turning install plug leads in firing order of 1342 in direction of rotation. That should give you timing to start car. If you have mot removed cam cover plug leads or distributor when changing cam seal DO NOT Alter them. I suspect YOU have got cambelt on wrong. I will look belt timing marks up for you at work tomorrow
Dave

[Brenjacques]

Hi thanks for the help! When I removed it I kept the fuel pump and distributor on (dizzy without cap). I also kept the timing belt on and all set up and just worked around it. The fuel pump is working fine. I am thinking I may have moved the rotor arm whilst the cam cover was off which in turn could have knocked the distributors timing out. I will take a look tomorrow and see if I can get it to go!

[Kilroy]

There is a small single notch on the timing disc behind the crankshaft pulley that can be lined up with the pointer.
When they are aligned the dimple on the camshaft pulley should be at 12 o clock.
If so - your cambelt is timed properly.

[david painter]

Below listed is removal and installation instructions direct from autodata
Timing Is set 90deg ATDDC Single notch on crank pulley lining up with pointer mark on oil pump at 11 o clock as viewed from front of car cam mark is dot through hole in top timing cover bracket on rear side of cam pulley is a 12 o clock. The only way rotor arm can move is if it is not fully
pushed home on distributor shaft as this is knotched so can only fit in one place

•Remove:•Auxiliary drive belts.
•Timing pick-up (if fitted).
•Timing belt cover 1.
•Radiator bottom hose support (if fitted).

•Turn crankshaft in direction of rotation until No.1 cylinder 90 ° mark (notch on timing disc) and pointer aligned 2.
•Ensure timing marks on rear of camshaft sprocket aligned 3.
•If not: Turn crankshaft one turn.
•Slacken tensioner nuts 4. Move tensioner away from belt and lightly tighten nuts.
•Remove timing belt.
•Ensure timing marks aligned 2 & 3.
•Fit timing belt. Ensure belt is taut between sprockets on non-tensioned side.
•Slacken tensioner nuts 4. Push tensioner lightly against belt 5. Tighten nuts 4.
•Hook tensioning tool to belt at dtd6. Tool No.tn18G_1315. Attach spring balance 7.
•Pull spring balance until belt aligned with vertical mark on water pump inlet pipe 8.
•Note reading indicated.
•To align belt with vertical mark on water pump inlet pipe 8, adjust tensioner 5 until specified tension is indicated. New belt: 6 kg. Used belt: 5 kg.
•Tighten tensioner nuts 4. Tightening torque: 28 Nm.
•Turn crankshaft slowly two turns. Ensure timing marks aligned 2 & 3.
•Install components in reverse order of removal.
If you PM me with mobile number with photo diagram for you and test it to you
Dave

[Brenjacques]

Hi, thanks for that! Checked it all and the cam is still timed. Tried timing the distributor but have had no luck with it firing still, just one massive backfire that caused a loud bang and black soot from the exhaust. I'm going to take a look at the points gap today and make sure that is all in order as I checked to see if the first spark plug was firing and it seemed to be dead so the problem may be lying there though of this is the case I can't see how it managed to backfire unless it is being a bit tempremental.

Cheers!

[david painter]

Did you move distributor in relation to cam cover when doing job? Have you Removed the CAM cover when doing seal? I answers to both those questions are no the timing will not be out. The points Gap wont have changed on its own. But the big bang and soot from exhaust is the big clue that you have mixed up the plug leads. Set car to no1 TDC check valves shut through oil filler hole remove distributor cap ensure rotor arm is on correctly and fully home where its pointing in plug lead no1 briefly crank engine with cap removed look at which way rotor arm turns then check and correct the leads to give you a firing order of 1 3 4 2 in direction of rotor arm rotation. No1 cylinder being at cambelt end of engine and no4 being by the bulk head. To check the Low tension (primary) side of coil points are working correctly get a test light connect on side to CB or - (negative) the side that goes to distributor and the other side of light to a earth crank engine if light flashes points and low tension side are functioning correctly
Dave

[Brenjacques]

Checked everything and adjusted as necessary but there is still no life, it is backfiring more now but it isn't running. A smell of burning wires is starting to form and the battery wire is now getting quite hot too.

[david painter]

Your going to have to go back to basics what wires did you move or disconnect doing the job? Can you describe on here exactly what you did to change the oil seal. In step by step bullet points. This will help to try and diagnose you problem!!

Q1 Did you loosen the 10 mm cam cover bolts if so by how many turns ?

Q2 Did you slacken the two 13 mm nuts on the distributor body ?

Q3 Have you pulled rotor arm off distributor shaft ?

Q4 Is it the main battery leads getting hot from cranking engine are terminals tight and not corroded ?

Q5 Does car have a ballast resistor ?

Q6 When test light connected as described does it flash when cranking ?

Q7 If light flashes Remove Coil lead from distributor cap hold with insulated pliers so as not to get a shock about 1/2 in from a metal earth ie cylinder head get some one to crank engine have you got a strong blue spark ?

Q8 If answer to Q7 is yes remove distributor cap and do same thing again with coil lead but now holding it about 1/2 inch away from centre of rotor arm where the carbon brush would contact, what is your spark like now ?

Q9 Have you check Valve timing as I have previously instructed is crank notch lined up with 11 o clock mark ? Is the dot on cam pulley visable through the top cam cover bracket hole at 12 o clock ?
Dave

[Kilroy]

Perhaps you should check the points gap.

Did you interfere with any wiring connections while you were replacing the seal.?

[david painter]

One other thought I have had Is the Woodruff key in the camshaft still present so the cam pulley will only fit on the camshaft in one place
Dave

[Brenjacques]

Hi, thanks for all of the help! I have now got it running again after giving everything a clean stripping it back apart and resetting it all!

Just an O series thermostat housing to sort next