Mk2 1.8 HL Automatic update

[david painter]

What are your CO and HC readings on your MOT emissions print out?
Dave

[Morris McKinnon]

Sounds like 'one of those cars' I've had my fair share of them but no one worse than a Ford Zephyr mk4 a few years back. It was a solid car with a spotless interior but it would cut out every mile or two. It took so long to re start it the battery would die. The threads in the manifold housing where the thermostat sat were stripped and were always coming loose, I smashed the alloy manifold housing one day trying to tighten them! I sent the Webber carb off one day to be reconditioned and found out later it was the wrong carb for the car! I did get the right carb later yet still give me grief and couldn't get more than 30 mph out of her and still cutting out. I even bought a complete spares car. One day the V4 went bang as it over heated because the temp gauge stopped working. I sold it complete advertised spares or repair. Doesn't show up on DVLA database so the guy who bought it no doubt had the same issues and scrapped it. That car is 'Thee' reason I hate Fords today and I used to love them. I think if you can't get the car to run right after this it may be time to cut your losses mate. You've persevered with it longer than most people would have I think but is looking more and more to be like 'one of those cars'

[MARINAMADBAZ]

If both gauges have packed up could be the voltage stablizer on the back of the instrument cluster mate

[mickthefitter]

Dave, not home right now so not got details with me but CO readings when car was on emissions test, and I was taken in to see the readout, started at 7.9 as it was when I drove in and ended at 4.3 when tweaked to make it pass. Can't recall the HC readout. Baz, yeah, I reckon voltage stabiliser too. Last year both gauges dropped then began to register again, so I knew something was up, but its the first time its done it since and after the struggle to get to the forecourt for petrol I sat there idling lumpily waiting for a big Merc to move and saw both gauges not registering, which they had done when I left home. Morris, yes your story with the Zephyr sounds like a horror story I can relate to. Thing is, I can't sell this car and hope to get anything like my money back until it runs better, then if it does run better, after the pain I've been through, it should be how I wanted it to be in the first place. But the sad fact is that despite the fact that I went after this Marina automatic at auction (neither realising that as an HL it was rare, twin carb or was originally a local car to my region) because I enjoyed owning a Marina automatic in the 80s, its done nothing but embarrass me on the road and add weight to the dire reputation Marinas had! Not forgetting this was not a restoration or recommissioning project in the auction catalogue, but a low mileage car with an enviable history file and original bill of sale! Even if I'd asked to see it run, which I didn't, because it was in an enclosed space, it would have told me nothing about what was to come because I wouldn't have been able to drive it, and that's when the problems started. AND I ended up in a bidding war to get it when many of the previous lots had not even made their lower estimate!

Yesterday I also noticed I can't pull the choke right out because the Mini Spares sourced cable trunnion fouls on the air filter 'U' brackets with the threads on since I put the air filter back. Crazy. Either I need to cut some off the trunnion, or do I need to clamp the cable with the choke fully closed? To me that isn't right. When I first began messing with the original knackered choke cable that wouldn't lock, with the araldited knob, as soon as I released it at the carburettor the choke lever on the carb snapped back on its stop. Which to me meant the choke was slightly on all the time. Or have I got that wrong? Is that how you set it? Because the way the manual describes pulling the cable through and clamping it, and then pulling the choke knob out 13mm and using the fast idle screws to set a tickover of 1100rpm, that doesn't involve the choke being partly on and the choke cable under tension when the knob is pushed right in, but that is how THIS CAR WAS when I bought it and when it was running better, though only just, than it ever has since!

[mickthefitter]

I've been into the garage this evening under the bonnet of my car, and it smelled of petrol.
On examination, the gaskets on both float chamber pots were damp with petrol. I take it this means the fuel level is too high.
I would have hoped Mr.Turner had worked on these parts, but it would appear not and it doesn't surprise me.

Whenever I first drove the car after I bought it, before I even touched any settings, it always smelled of petrol. Aside from me changing both float chamber lid gaskets, because they were obviously old and had been off before, I took it that it smelled of petrol because it was a crap performer and not burning fuel correctly.

When I first got the car, a used one of these was in a box of spares. It had been taken off.

And the fuel pipe from the fuel pump to the carburettor had been joined back together with this

I didn't know what it was till yesterday, when I took it apart, but it is a none return valve.

Having replaced all my flexible fuel hose along with the 'new' carburettors, I put a brand new one of these

in the fuel line between the pump and the carb, but since I've had the car running, and since it cut out on me before the MoT with apparent fuel starvation, with the filter never looking full and then sometimes looking empty at rest, prompting my other thread about fuel filters, yesterday I replaced the fuel filter again with this

to try to make sure the carbs were well fed by fuel - but now I'm wondering if the valve holding the fuel in the carbs at rest has caused the wet float chamber lid gaskets and the smell of petrol.

So now, I've taken the one way valve out and fitted this

a smaller filter, to see if it makes any difference, before it goes for supposed tuning. I'm afraid I've never tried setting the fuel level height in a float chamber by trying to follow the instructions in a Haynes or similar manual, and to be honest the instructions don't make a lot of sense to me, so if the float chamber lids are at fault, I am hoping and assuming new ones come correctly set (they seemed to do when I replaced them on Minis) so I'll buy new ones if that's the case.

Next problem. The choke cable. Can anyone please tell me how it is supposed to be set correctly? Because this

is fouling on the 'U' bracket for the air filter when I try to pull the choke out fully, even though I thought I'd set it right by the instructions in Haynes. It looks like I need to cut some of it off at the blank end for clearance. But that can't make sense!

The first time I tried to adjust the old knackered choke cable, when I released the trunnion screw, the choke lever arm on the carb snapped back onto its stop. This meant that before I touched it, the choke cable was under tension all the time, even when the choke knob was fully pushed in. I decided that couldn't possibly be correct, meaning, surely, that the butterfly was partly closed even when the car was driving at full operating temperature, so (reading the manual) I set the choke cable with the carb choke lever resting on its stop.

Now with a new choke cable, I pull the choke out and the cable trunnion hits the air filter bracket!

When I operate the carburettor choke linkage bar by hand, under the bonnet, there's about 1/2" of movement (roughly) before the jets start to open. So if this 'slack' were taken up, before the cable was tightened in the trunnion, the trunnion wouldn't hit the air filter bracket....just like it was set by someone else before I got the car....but this action would still partly close the butterflies, right? So surely you can't run the car in normal operation with partly closed butterflies? Or am I totally misinterpreting the Haynes manual and that is precisely what you are supposed to do to set the cable?

If someone has an answer to that one, I'd be grateful because I'm sick of the Haynes manual (and Autobooks) not making much sense where my car is concerned. Also I noticed the movement of the jet on the rear carb, when manually manipulating the linkage, looks slightly sticky. I reckon the £300 I paid Andrew Turner would have been better spent going towards the £500-odd for the new pair of carbs from Burlen.

The voltage regulator (or the connections to it) were working tonight. I got both fuel and temperature gauges registering. An intermittent fault.

Dave, you asked for CO and HC readouts off my MoT. The paper is headed 'Sun DGA 2500 MOT' which I assume is the equipment it was connected to.
The CO % vol was 4.386 to pass, but this was a 'suck it and see' rough adjustment of the carburettors by my MoT man just to get it through, after i'd said he can having it later in the week to try to set it up properly. Before he touched it, it was failing at 7.9. The next line on the paper is for 'LPG' (not 'HC') ppm vol: actual value 963, limit 1200. The lines for idle speed and smoke level are blank.

Mick.

[david painter]

Your base mixture is still slightly rich, but with HC at 963 you have a lot of unburnt petrol in the exhaust. Running correctly HC should be 300ppm or below. There is not really any adjustment on the floats on the chambers if flooding replace the needs and seats in the float chamber. Work the choke by hand and lubricate all moving parts including the exposed part of the jet when choke full on. reconnect cable with knob fully in and tighten up at carb end so choke not held on. with choke out fast idle should be 1500/1600RPM. Make sure you are getting full throttle at carbs when pedal fully down.
Dave

[mickthefitter]

Thank you Dave. I will reconnect the choke cable but leave the mixture setting to my man at the garage when the car goes in on Wednesday. Sounds like I'd set the choke cable correctly but the trunnion still hits the air filter bracket behind the mounting flange on applying full choke, restricting movement. No idea why that should be. It's probably the reason why the car came to me appearing to have had the choke cable clamped up with the linkage bar turned against the springs slightly and the cable always under tension with the knob pushed in. Whatever the reason for the problem, I will trim a small amount off the trunnion which should at least get around this issue.

[mickthefitter]

Okay so this morning I cut some metal off the new choke cable trunnion I purchased, and now I've got full movement of the choke mechanism and the trunnion clears the threaded boss on the 'U' bracket that holds the air filter on, at the back of the rear carburettor. Clears it just. I've no idea if the new choke cable trunnion was longer than the one I lost, or if they're all the same, but for some reason mine fouled the bracket.

I also lubricated the sliding mechanism that lowers the jets on full choke, but that last half inch or so of 'pull' that the choke cable needs to get full choke sure puts a strain on the steering column shroud. There is no drag on the new choke cable when it is not connected to anything, but it is hard to pull the choke on to the full extent. The new cable (from Earlpart) was 4" longer than the original. I didn't cut it down prior to fitting it into the column shroud, and threading it through to the under bonnet area, then when I fitted the carburettors and saw how much difference 4" made, I didn't feel like taking the whole thing apart again to cut the inner and outer cables separately to length. It's also a 'twist-lock' cable so I didn't know if I stripped it, whether I'd get it back together again working. So I just routed the cable behind the wiper motor where it comes out of the bulkhead, to give it a nice wide curve with zero kinks and it looks neat. So whether the extra length has some bearing on the force needed to pull the choke out isn't known to me, but I didn't expect it to make any difference.

[mickthefitter]

Got a call from garage. Distributor not advancing properly. Glyn thinks its got the wrong springs fitted. My testing it by turning the base plate or rotor arm shaft to see if it springs back obviously doesn't mean I know how much resistance there should or shouldn't be, as I don't have that level of experience. If the wrong springs have been fitted it goes hand in hand with all the rest of the hamfisted bodgery this car seems to have been subjected to in recent years. Glyn is going to try to get a distributor from the Distributor Doctor. I'm going contactless

[MarinaCoupe]

The Distributor Doctor should be able to sort you out the right distributor. Give him a call he's an ace bloke. He should be able to recon yours and fit the right springs etc.

http://www.distributordoctor.com

[mickthefitter]

No my garage man is sourcing it, fitting it, and setting it up. The car is staying there until it is right, or as right as it can be. He hasn't even started tuning the carburettors yet. There's no telling what else he might find. I've had this car over a year now and barely been able to use it, and when I have its been on a wing and a prayer. Enough is enough. I've done what I can with the cooling system and the starting system, changed fuel hose, fuel pump, put a new choke cable in and had the carbs rebuilt. Someone else can have a play now.

[Morris McKinnon]

Is the auto box good? I had a 1966 Rover 2000 auto and was very lethargic, on hills I couldn't get more than say 15 mph but strangely the engine didn't over rev to compensate for the slipping brake bands (I think it was the bands), on a straight flat road she would drive nice and run through the gears as normal though you could feel that there just wasn't any pork left. I sold it before I got around to finding out was wrong with it but was definitely something to do with the auto box.

[mickthefitter]

No idea. Cars never ran well enough to really tell. It leaks out of the sump. Another previous 'fix' that didn't work.

[david painter]

Quote Morris McKinnon

 by Morris McKinnon » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:31 pm

Is the auto box good? I had a 1966 Rover 2000 auto and was very lethargic, on hills I couldn't get more than say 15 mph but strangely the engine didn't over rev to compensate for the slipping brake bands (I think it was the bands), on a straight flat road she would drive nice and run through the gears as normal though you could feel that there just wasn't any pork left. I sold it before I got around to finding out was wrong with it but was definitely something to do with the auto box.

A Defective Torque Convertor will cause those symptoms. Faulty Brake Bands and of Clutches usually cause slippage in the transmission and Flare up between gear changes
Dave

[mickthefitter]

Good to know. I just came back to look at that post because as a layman, I thought is sounded to me like it wasn't downshifting if the speed dropped off but revs didn't rise. Now I'm uncertain whether a defective torque converter equals the internal pressures all being wrong, giving rise to the shift speeds being awry, or if it's dragging the engine down for a different reason.